2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Because Dave Cameron was too stubborn to make the change. Didn't the PP take off once Cameron was forced to use Dougie on the PP?

Not a whole lot, but it was better. There were lots of other issues too.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Because Dave Cameron was too stubborn to make the change. Didn't the PP take off once Cameron was forced to use Dougie on the PP?

For a mini stretch it did but once injuries caught up from mid March to the finish we free fell on the PP including like a 1/31 run down the stretch.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What a joke.

Because some people think moving on from Hamilton could be the right move they are part of the boo-patrol?

Nope, but those who repeat it like banging a drum are, as are the very few who crap all over the team with a completely negative outlook on just about all facets like a broken record.

It's just one topic many of those firmly in that camp has targeted in on.

I think it's fine to objectively consider moving him if the offer is right, but that's got nothing to do with some of the asinine comments and conjecture spewed about him by some of the aforementioned group. If you read my post and felt lumped in with that group I'm not sure what to tell you. I didn't say anyone who's talked about trading Hamilton in a trade thread are in that extreme and didn't think that needed explaining.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

a. Brodie has always had PP time, even this year, in excess of Hamilton. Put Hamilton on the first unit full time and he will score even more.

So just make up whatever sort of BS you want.

Hamilton 218.5 minutes pp time 2:40 /gm
Brodie 187:05 minutes 2:31 / gm


Even with the lower PP time Brodie had 11 pp points and Hamilton had 12. Hamilton with 31 minutes extra PP time was involved in 1 more goal!!!!


If I was using your non-fact based stats I could have said that Brodie Had 23 pp points..... but there is this thing called the internet that gives access to the actual stats.

The actual facts do not support the assumption that Hamilton was a cure for the Flames PP or that he earned more PP time.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Just so we are all clear, everyone is aware of the contract that Dougie would sign on July 1 this year right?

His contract is the biggest asset about him. I can’t fathom trading it for at least 2 years, and his value likely increases. It’s just crazy to me to move it.

And what if a team offers you a top two line player, top prospect and a 1st? Do you hang up cause his contract is so good or do you listen cause it might improve the Flames? Obviously it would have to be the right forward and top prospect but all some of us are saying is that Treliving WILL listen and that it’s likely some teams will offer some big packages for a guy like Hamilton’s whose value is sky high and who would be a perfect fit for some teams who desperately need a top pairing RH puck moving dman in his prime.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So just make up whatever sort of BS you want.

Hamilton 218.5 minutes pp time 2:40 /gm
Brodie 187:05 minutes 2:31 / gm


Even with the lower PP time Brodie had 11 pp points and Hamilton had 12. Hamilton with 31 minutes extra PP time was involved in 1 more goal!!!!


If I was using your non-fact based stats I could have said that Brodie Had 23 pp points..... but there is this thing called the internet that gives access to the actual stats.

The actual facts do not support the assumption that Hamilton was a cure for the Flames PP or that he earned more PP time.

Is that PP1 time or overall PP time? I think there is a pretty significant difference between playing on PP1 and PP2.

If it is PP1 time, what percentage of Hamilton’s time came during the period when the entire PP went cold? The last 20 games or so the Flames’ PP cooked along at a 2% rate and was actually outscored by opposing teams’ PKs.

You could look at the last 20 games as Hamilton’s fault if he was on PP1 during that time, but I think it would be oversimplifying it to say that. It was more likely a whole team issue, which no single player can make up for.

What we do know is that Dougie Hamilton is 4th in P/60 at 5v5 over the last 3 seasons behind Karlsson, Burns and Hedman. I really doubt that, if you give that kind of a talent a full season on PP1, Hamilton will not score a ton of points.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So just make up whatever sort of BS you want.

Hamilton 218.5 minutes pp time 2:40 /gm
Brodie 187:05 minutes 2:31 / gm


Even with the lower PP time Brodie had 11 pp points and Hamilton had 12. Hamilton with 31 minutes extra PP time was involved in 1 more goal!!!!


If I was using your non-fact based stats I could have said that Brodie Had 23 pp points..... but there is this thing called the internet that gives access to the actual stats.

The actual facts do not support the assumption that Hamilton was a cure for the Flames PP or that he earned more PP time.

I guess I should have said first unit time. Hamilton's main PP time for most of the year was on the second unit (Gio too). Brodie had all the first unit time. Remember? Then when the change was made Brodie was much reduced. And Hamilton wasn't the point man even on the first unit.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Because Dave Cameron was too stubborn to make the change. Didn't the PP take off once Cameron was forced to use Dougie on the PP?

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not a whole lot, but it was better. There were lots of other issues too.

Through the first 21 games of the season, the Flames had the 11th best PP (21.6%) in the league, and were 14th in PP opportunities.

Over that time, Hamilton was 6th on the team just ahead of tkachuk in PP TOI per game, playing 2:18 per game on the PP.

Then Versteeg got injured for the season.

Over the next 32 Games, Hamilton was 8th on the team in PP TOI per game...playing 2:08 per game on the PP. The Flames were 30th in the league over that time on the PP at 13.5%, but were 5th in PP opportunities.

From February 8th (when the Flames put Giordano and Hamilton on the top PP unit with 3 forwards and moved brodie to unit #2) until March 11th (Tkachuk Injury), Dougie Hamilton averaged 4:07 per game on the PP. From the Tkachuk injury to the final game of the season, Hamilton averaged 2:41.

In the 13 games after the Flames lost Tkachuk to injury, the powerplay was the worst in the league at just 2.9%.

Between February 8th (when the Flames switched Brodie for Hamilton/Giordano) and March 11th (Tkachuk injury), the Flames PP was 10th in the NHL at 21.4%, they were 2nd in PP opportunities, and Tkachuk was third on the team in PP TOI, 1 second average icetime less than Gaudreau and Monahan, tied for first.

Without Tkachuk the Flames weren't drawing enough penalties, and without Tkachuk and Versteeg, they didn't have enough offensively qualified forwards to make a significant positive impact on the PP.

IMO, it comes down to forwards.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, if you can get Hall or Johansen, of course you look hard at that trade. Teams with elite forwards aren't giving them up though, unless there's a pending RFA issue, or a glut of forwards and a dearth of defencemen. But I don't think Brodie is anywhere near as good, therefore the top pairing won't be as good.

Only reason I mention those names specifically is they were traded 1-for-1 for defensemen in the rough ballpark of Hamilton's value, and I think a similar trade could be possible.

I also disagree somewhat that Brodie's nowhere near as good - I think Hamilton was a much better fit for the way Gulutzan wanted the team to play, but Brodie was every bit as good as Hamilton is now, if not better, the last year under Hartley. I think we could easily see a return to form if we get our D more active skating around the ice and emphasize the quick counterattack a bit more. But if the D's job is to fire one-timers from the point then I agree - Hamilton is miles ahead of Brodie in that regard.

[Heavy Jack]

I think Hamilton + 1st or Hamilton + Bennett is more than fair to land a top RW like Stone or Marner. Both those teams are in need of stud defenceman and no matter what way you try to shake it D. Hamilton has been a stud dman for us.

Do I want to trade Hamilton? Not really no but I'm a realist with this roster too and looking at the type of value contract he's currently locked in at and the other D-men we have similarly locked up in very good value deals then it makes sense to deal from a position of strength when you consider what's pushing in our defensive cupboards ~ Kulak, Andersson, Kylington, Valimaki, Fox and even Wotherspoon if he reups have all been pretty promising prospects in their own ways and have continued to grow.

Do I trade Hamilton for picks? No that's a step backward.

Do I trade down on Hamilton? We aren't Edmonton, obviously we don't.

Do I trade Hamilton for a player in a position of need with equal pedigree? Every single day and twice on Sunday and I should hope the majority of CP thinks that way too.

Dougie isn't a problem for us; he's a solution whether that be while continuing to wear a Flaming C or while wearing different colours after landing us a prized winger.

Trades I would do for DH:

DH + Fox + 19 1st ~ Marner + 18 1st
DH ~ Nylander + 18 1st
DH + Bennett + 19 1st + Fox ~ Stone + 18 1st
DH + Bennett ~ Tarasenko

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I think Hamilton + 1st or Hamilton + Bennett is more than fair to land a top RW like Stone or Marner. Both those teams are in need of stud defenceman and no matter what way you try to shake it D. Hamilton has been a stud dman for us.

Do I want to trade Hamilton? Not really no but I'm a realist with this roster too and looking at the type of value contract he's currently locked in at and the other D-men we have similarly locked up in very good value deals then it makes sense to deal from a position of strength when you consider what's pushing in our defensive cupboards ~ Kulak, Andersson, Kylington, Valimaki, Fox and even Wotherspoon if he reups have all been pretty promising prospects in their own ways and have continued to grow.

Do I trade Hamilton for picks? No that's a step backward.

Do I trade down on Hamilton? We aren't Edmonton, obviously we don't.

Do I trade Hamilton for a player in a position of need with equal pedigree? Every single day and twice on Sunday and I should hope the majority of CP thinks that way too.

Dougie isn't a problem for us; he's a solution whether that be while continuing to wear a Flaming C or while wearing different colours after landing us a prized winger.

Trades I would do for DH:

DH + Fox + 19 1st ~ Marner + 18 1st
DH ~ Nylander + 18 1st
DH + Bennett + 19 1st + Fox ~ Stone + 18 1st
DH + Bennett ~ Tarasenko

I don't like the idea of trading Bennett - because with how successful teams are structured in today's NHL, I think his continued development - even on the 3rd line - is going to be a big bonus for us. I am with you on the Dougie Hamilton front. I think building depth up front is Treliving's clear goal this summer, and subtracting from that already depleted depth likely won't be the route he chooses. I think Valimaki's stellar performance in the playoffs also makes it fairly likely we're going to see a defenceman traded for a forward this summer simply because our organizational depth will allow for it.

I don't want to see Hamilton traded, but if there's a big win that we can nail down thanks to the defensive depth of the organization...sure, I'd be into it. As Friedman speculates on last week's 31 Thoughts...if Hamilton is moved, it's going to be for a huge price.

[getoverit]

agree with your assessment except

I think Dougie being a top 2 and offensive minded d-men is worth more then a Marner or Stone let alone having to add Bennett or Fox to make it happen? swapping firsts helps get some talent on the farm sooner in a deep draft, so makes sense

I too don't want to move DH, but if you do , you got to make it worth your while to add to our top 6, we shouldn't have to be adding anything

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I think Hamilton + 1st or Hamilton + Bennett is more than fair to land a top RW like Stone or Marner. Both those teams are in need of stud defenceman and no matter what way you try to shake it D. Hamilton has been a stud dman for us.

Do I want to trade Hamilton? Not really no but I'm a realist with this roster too and looking at the type of value contract he's currently locked in at and the other D-men we have similarly locked up in very good value deals then it makes sense to deal from a position of strength when you consider what's pushing in our defensive cupboards ~ Kulak, Andersson, Kylington, Valimaki, Fox and even Wotherspoon if he reups have all been pretty promising prospects in their own ways and have continued to grow.

Do I trade Hamilton for picks? No that's a step backward.

Do I trade down on Hamilton? We aren't Edmonton, obviously we don't.

Do I trade Hamilton for a player in a position of need with equal pedigree? Every single day and twice on Sunday and I should hope the majority of CP thinks that way too.

Dougie isn't a problem for us; he's a solution whether that be while continuing to wear a Flaming C or while wearing different colours after landing us a prized winger.

Trades I would do for DH:

DH + Fox + 19 1st ~ Marner + 18 1st
DH ~ Nylander + 18 1st
DH + Bennett + 19 1st + Fox ~ Stone + 18 1st
DH + Bennett ~ Tarasenko

[getbak]

Here's something I recently realized: If Treliving trades away an NHL roster player with term remaining on his contract this summer, it will be the first time he has done so since becoming the Flames' GM four years ago.

So far, every player he has traded away has either been a prospect or AHL/ECHL regular, or an NHLer with an expiring contract. More NHL roster players have been bought out than traded.

It will be interesting to see if he deviates from his past behaviour this summer.

[Heavy Jack]

The first Dougie/Bennett swap was

DH + SB + 19 1st + Fox

For

Stone + 18 1st (4th overall)

After Dhalin you have Zadina, Svechnikov, Tkachuk as the best forwards to select from or basically a redo on Sam Bennett.

When that package turns into Stone AND one of those 3 forward it makes it a lot more enticing to consider.

Maybe take the 19 1st out of the first trade and keep it to trade up into the top 3 and guarantee one of Zadina/Svechnikov both of whom are RW talents.

I think we are very well positioned not only technically to be in the top 3-5 teams Tavares can actually consider but we can also add another big contract on the wing in place of DH’s 5.75

Gaudreau - Tavares - Stone
Tkachuk - Monahan - Zadina
Ferland - Backlund - Frolik
Brouwer - Jankowski - Lazar
Foo

Giordano - Brodie
Kulak - Hamonic
Valimaki - Stone/Andersson
Stone/Andersson

Smith
Rittich/Gillies

[dino7c]

Reality is Dougie was about to get an offer sheet...he is a better player now

Value is sky high...and if its not why trade him?

[wingmaker]

Ever thought the reason the Flames have been so bad for so long is because they've had a winger as their best player since the cup win? Fleury to Iginla to Gaudreau/Tkatchuk. It didn't work with the first two, jury's out on the last pair. Yet somehow it still seems smart to trade our top pairing young defenceman with a contract under 6 million a year for...another winger. That would give the Flames three top end wingers compared to one ageing top end defenceman, two centres that people regularly dump on, and a goalie with one year left on his deal.

Complain about Hamilton all you want, but trading him for a winger is lunacy. Only argument to be had is if they can land a top two centre who is young-ish. Even then, it might end up making the team worse.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Only reason I mention those names specifically is they were traded 1-for-1 for defensemen in the rough ballpark of Hamilton's value, and I think a similar trade could be possible.

I also disagree somewhat that Brodie's nowhere near as good - I think Hamilton was a much better fit for the way Gulutzan wanted the team to play, but Brodie was every bit as good as Hamilton is now, if not better, the last year under Hartley. I think we could easily see a return to form if we get our D more active skating around the ice and emphasize the quick counterattack a bit more. But if the D's job is to fire one-timers from the point then I agree - Hamilton is miles ahead of Brodie in that regard.

Sorry, Brodie is just not as good. Not as good defensively, not as good offensively, not as good in transition. He can make a better backhand pass I guess, and I would say he is better 3 on 3, but even under Hartley, he wasn't as good as Hamilton is now (or last year for that matter). And he will never be a good all around defenceman. Even at his peak he wasn't good defensively.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by getbak

Here's something I recently realized: If Treliving trades away an NHL roster player with term remaining on his contract this summer, it will be the first time he has done so since becoming the Flames' GM four years ago.

So far, every player he has traded away has either been a prospect or AHL/ECHL regular, or an NHLer with an expiring contract. More NHL roster players have been bought out than traded.

It will be interesting to see if he deviates from his past behaviour this summer.

From all the post season comments he has made. He's certainly at the very least hinted at that direction. All his comments about roster I'm balance etc.

Don't know who he is going to trade but I definitely see him making the kind of roster trade he has not made.

[bax]

Flames struggle to score goals so lets trade away our best offensive defense man

[Monahammer]

Strongly agree with the winger comment above. Dougie is worth more than any winger in the league. Only winger trade I have liked so far is mark stone + 4th (brady Tkachuk) for hamilton and bennett