2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I remember someone here a few years ago saying they talked to a family member of Greens and they had said he has no interest in playing here. Would rather play in lesser scrutinized markets and I can't say I blame him. If he had a rough go here the fans are really quick to turn ugly.

Yes it was his dad, came into my job to buy supplies and I eventually worked towards asking if Mike ever considered playing in Calgary and his dad said he would never do it and enjoyed being further from home during the season months.

[Heavy Jack]

Dream moves for me would be

sign JT 7 x 11
Trading Hamilton + 19 1st for Marner + 18 1st
Package Stone + Toronto 18 1st + Bennett for 5th overall + Domi
Draft Tkachuk
Sign De Haan 5 x 3.5
Promote Andersson
Trade Frolik for 2nd + 4th this year (San Jose)

Tkachuk - Tavares - Marner
Gaudreau - Monahan - Domi
Tkachuk - Backlund - Ferland
Brouwer - Jankowski - Lazar
Foo, Hathaway

Giordano - Brodie
De Haan - Hamonic
Kulak - Andersson

Smith
Rittich

/if only lol

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think Hamilton is the piece the Flames should consider trading but most of that reasoning is due to his value and he is the key to adding another elite forward that fits the age range of the current core. A Stone or Nylander/Marner or Tkachuk+ return is what I want.

There is something about Dougie. I can’t put my finger exactly on it but I just don’t like the cut of his jib. I think there is all kinds of truth to his demand to have the Flames acquire his brother and part of the reason he forced a trade out of Boston.

Skill wise he has elite offensive talent and I could see him putting up 60-70pts in his prime. He has never been a 25min Dman and still faced weaker competition than Brodie or Hamonic this season. He doesn’t penalty kill very often and seems to lack defensive intensity.

I think he is an important part of the team and a key asset for the Flames. If the return matches the value then I think the flames should move him. If the offers are not sufficient then the team easily keeps him.

If Calgary could get Nylander and the Leafs first for Dougie that trade does a lot for both teams. Flames get the 22 year old right shot forward and draft pick they need. Leafs get their young right shot Dman.

I understand what you are saying, but a right hand shot big defenseman is very valuable. I guess I'm not sold on Nylander, if it's Stone and Ottawa's first, then I might be able to get behind. I'm not saying Hamilton is untouchable, but I don't want to under sold and regret it later.

[Sylvanfan]

This notion that big strong right handed defenceman are more valuable than big strong left handed defenceman is silly. It's not like the league is flooded with guys like Hedman. I think Hamilton is severely over valued by a lot of posters. He's a second pairing defenseman who can score quite a bit. A nice piece to have, but if he's one of your cornerstone players....you will be a team that goes 5 years between winning a game in the playoffs let alone series.

[iloveicedhockey]

As someone reasonably new to hockey (5 years or so), has someone like karlsson ever been traded with a year remaining? What was the haul if so? Obviously the acquiring team would only give up a package of significant assets if they could sign straight after but given how much shattenkirk got at the deadline I can only imagine it'd have to be a monumental amount, probably involving some high end NHL and prospect pieces.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

This notion that big strong right handed defenceman are more valuable than big strong left handed defenceman is silly. It's not like the league is flooded with guys like Hedman. I think Hamilton is severely over valued by a lot of posters. He's a second pairing defenseman who can score quite a bit. A nice piece to have, but if he's one of your cornerstone players....you will be a team that goes 5 years between winning a game in the playoffs let alone series.

All the metrics indicate that Hamilton is nothing if not a top-notch first-pairing guy. How can a 3/4 guy lead the NHL in defensive scoring? That really doesn't make sense, man. Hamilton is the opposite of the problem and he's the defender who I trade LAST.

[nik-]

This seeming obsession with trading Hamilton by some posters here because he's average defensively is over the top.

We should probably not be trading a significant portion of our offense to try and get more offense.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by nik-

This seeming obsession with trading Hamilton by some posters here because he's average defensively is over the top.

We should probably not be trading a significant portion of our offense to try and get more offense.

I think he's above average defensively. He gets shat on a lot because he doesn't hit people much.
Unfortunately I've heard Friedman speculate too, so I'm just enjoying speculating. I hope we don't trade him.

I disagree with the poster above who thinks people are over valuing Dougie. He's young, huge, and all stats point to him being one of the best all around d men in the league the last two years. He's potentially the most valuable asset the flames would ever trade.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I like Dougie and don't necessarily want to see him traded (however if there was an incredible offer you have to evaluate it) but the interesting question for me is Hamilton's value amongst fans.

Some people say he's a top pairing defenceman while others point to defensive issues (I think like any player there are strengths and areas of improvement) but I'm curious which players people see Hamilton as a comparable to?

I realize Dougie is still developing but if you were to project him into his prime - who does he resemble (at a similar stage of their career)

Will Dougie max out like max:
Doughty?
Klingberg?
Bouwmeester?
Jones?
Brodie?
Green?
(These are just random names I'm throwing out)

[Svartsengi]

If Hamilton's name is out there it's because other teams would love to have him. I would be surprised if Flames got equal value better idea is to keep him. Move out guys like Frolik, Stone, and Brouwer. Build from within keep and acquire more draft picks. No more quick fixes or trying accelerate (force) the building of the team.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

All the metrics indicate that Hamilton is nothing if not a top-notch first-pairing guy. How can a 3/4 guy lead the NHL in defensive scoring? That really doesn't make sense, man. Hamilton is the opposite of the problem and he's the defender who I trade LAST.

As I said he's a good scorer. Really goal scorer..he was 22nd in the league in total points by a defenceman. Scores 3 goals on a nihht when Florida kicks your ass 6-3. Andy Delmore lead all NHL defenceman in goals with 18 one year..

I'll be happy to be wrong when the flames win their 8th playoff game with Dogue leading the charge. But I think there's a better chance we see 0 Flames playoff wins in the next 3 seasons with him expected to lead the charge than seeing them win 4 in a single season.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

As I said he's a good scorer. Really goal scorer..he was 22nd in the league in total points by a defenceman. Scores 3 goals on a nihht when Florida kicks your ass 6-3. Andy Delmore lead all NHL defenceman in goals with 18 one year..

I'll be happy to be wrong when the flames win their 8th playoff game with Dogue leading the charge. But I think there's a better chance we see 0 Flames playoff wins in the next 3 seasons with him expected to lead the charge than seeing them win 4 in a single season.

Sounds like Dougie was the only good thing about the Flames that night. Hard to see a problem there.

Andy Delmore is a ridiculous comparison to even bring up. He was famous league wide for being terrible at D. That's like saying I coughed a couple times this morning, I better kick it now or I will die of pneumonia.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I am against trading Hamilton, but I'd listen to some of the offers.



Ristolainen+reinhart+RoR for Bennett+hamilton+Kylington



Not a 1-1 but gives us lots to work with. Buffalo goes on to draft Dahlin and between him eichel Hamilton and middlestadt should be pretty well prepared for the future. We get a talented but defesively shoddy Finn to bring up with valimaki and bring a Reinhart back into the fold, along with acquiring another line driving forward.

That would be a horrible trade for Buffalo to make. You could take out ROR and I am not certain they bite.


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[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I like Dougie and don't necessarily want to see him traded (however if there was an incredible offer you have to evaluate it) but the interesting question for me is Hamilton's value amongst fans.

Some people say he's a top pairing defenceman while others point to defensive issues (I think like any player there are strengths and areas of improvement) but I'm curious which players people see Hamilton as a comparable to?

I realize Dougie is still developing but if you were to project him into his prime - who does he resemble (at a similar stage of their career)

Will Dougie max out like max:
Doughty?
Klingberg?
Bouwmeester?
Jones?
Brodie?
Green?
(These are just random names I'm throwing out)

Well he is worlds better than Brodie or Andy Green.

Bouwmeester is an interesting comparison. JayBo was much better defensively but no where near as good offensively..at least after he turned 25. Both guys are big but not physical and can skate like the wind.

Klingburg looks to me like he is on a whole other level offensively.

Seth Jones and Drew Doughty are elite defensmen as they are great at both ends, something DH is not.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well he is worlds better than Brodie or Andy Green.

Bouwmeester is an interesting comparison. JayBo was much better defensively but no where near as good offensively..at least after he turned 25. Both guys are big but not physical and can skate like the wind.

Klingburg looks to me like he is on a whole other level offensively.

Seth Jones and Drew Doughty are elite defensmen as they are great at both ends, something DH is not.

See, I think Brodie did better with partner Gio, and stats support that.

I also think that Hamilton is better defensively than Bouwmeester, and stats support that.

I agree that he is not in that tier of the handful of elite D. Stats support that too.

He does have a lot of value, and if someone wants to offer something good, you have to listen. I don’t like his compete at times in his own zone but don’t think trading him is addition by subtraction.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

This notion that big strong right handed defenceman are more valuable than big strong left handed defenceman is silly. It's not like the league is flooded with guys like Hedman. I think Hamilton is severely over valued by a lot of posters. He's a second pairing defenseman who can score quite a bit. A nice piece to have, but if he's one of your cornerstone players....you will be a team that goes 5 years between winning a game in the playoffs let alone series.

Disagree on several points. Hamilton has played on our top pairing and that pairing has been dominant statistically. Calling him a 2nd pairing dman just does not jive with reality.

As to his value, any young top pairing puck moving defensemen is going to have crazy high trade value.

I think the only reason we’re talking about trading him (don’t see anybody obsessed with it as nik seems to think) is that he isn’t necessarily untouchable and does have huge value league wide. Plus 4 of our top prospects atm are puck moving defensemen. So he’s by far the most valuable asset we have that might be considered non-core. Obviously not all fans agree and some think he should be considered a core player. But for those of us who think he isn’t untouchable he’d be by far the most valuable asset to move.

As I’ve maintained I don’t think Hamilton is a problem. But some GMs desperate for a young puck moving top pair dman may offer up the sun and the moon. I don’t think Treliving moves him unless somebody overpays for him.

[jayswin]

Sylvanfan your valuation of Hamilton just isn't accurate.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think the only reason we’re talking about trading him (don’t see anybody obsessed with it as nik seems to think) is that he isn’t necessarily untouchable and does have huge value league wide. Plus 4 of our top prospects atm are puck moving defensemen. So he’s by far the most valuable asset we have that might be considered non-core. Obviously not all fans agree and some think he should be considered a core player. But for those of us who think he isn’t untouchable he’d be by far the most valuable asset to move.

As I’ve maintained I don’t think Hamilton is a problem. But some GMs desperate for a young puck moving top pair dman may offer up the sun and the moon. I don’t think Treliving moves him unless somebody overpays for him.

Fair points. In the right situation I do think he is a very effective player. I just don't know if the Flames can build the right situation around him within the next three years given what they have. If they can't what happens with him or Gaudreau, or others?

As you stated he is the one piece that might bring the return which eventually allows the Flames to surround Monahan, Gaudreau, and Tkachuck with the pieces to be a team that's legitimately a top team.

But like Bouwmeester...don't trade him for a bad return, only make a deal if you get exactly what you want. As you have said there are no other reasons forcing the Flames hand here that are apparent. Between him and the three forwards I mentioned above those are the pieces with high value. I don't think any other asset on the team yields enough in return to spring the organization forward enough to get beyond being a lower end playoff team.

Without much in terms of picks in the next two drafts it's going to be a challenge to push this team forward unless they really make a shrewd trade or two.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I don't think any other asset on the team yields enough in return to spring the organization forward enough to get beyond being a lower end playoff team.

Without much in terms of picks in the next two drafts it's going to be a challenge to push this team forward unless they really make a shrewd trade or two.

Call me an optimist but I don't think they are that far off. Basically the Flames need Jankowski and Bennett to continue to develop into top two line forwards. Add one more top two line forward and I think the team is pretty deep in all areas.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Player X
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Klimchuk-Shore-Lazar
Brouwer/Hathaway

That's a pretty deep forward setup IMO if Player X is a good offensive creator, Bennett rebounds under Peters and Jankowski continues to develop. I don't think the latter two points are unrealistic. Basically we'd have an entire extra scoring line than we had last year. Instead of having 1.5 scoring lines, we'd have 2.5 where the Bennett-Backlund-Frolik line would be a two-way shutdown line that can still score a bit.

So can we acquire one more top 6 forward without decimating the rest of the team? Probably. We've got Valimaki and Andersson who are both close to NHL ready IMO. So that means you can probably afford to deal one of Hamilton, Brodie, Stone or Fox for a top 6 forward, preferably a right shot RW. Or perhaps Treliving manages to get one out of free agency and we can keep the entire defense intact.

The Flames have most of the pieces in place to contend IMO. Just need continued development from our young players and probably one more good top 6 forward. I think improved coaching will make more of a difference than some expect.

[CliffFletcher]

In my 33 years as a Flames fan I don't think I've seen a player with such wildly varying fan assessments of his value. Count me among those who just don't see what the fans in love with Hamilton see. He's an offensive defenceman who finished 21st in defenseman scoring, and fans here are expecting a return greater than what Pronger got. It's crazy.

One thing that strikes me is it's become impossible to talk about how good a player is defensively. I don't know how or why that happened, but it makes it difficult to come close to agreement on a player's value, or even have a worthwhile discussion about it.

I look at Hamilton, when I'm watching him try to handle an opposing forward coming down the wing, or pick up his man in the slot, and I see a player who is poor defensively. Who makes me genuinely nervous. I see a player who either doesn't know what his responsibilities are defensively, or simply isn't dialed in enough to carry them out. And while he's a strong skater lugging the puck up the ice, he looks clumsy skating backwards and in tight, which is why gets turned around so often and resorts to tripping or taking a whack at a forward who's getting around him.

And his coaches seem to see the same player, because they protect him from any situation where they need to stop the other team from scoring. Stud defencemen get PK time. Lots of it. Hamilton gets almost none. And let's not forget, team North America didn't think he was good enough to make the team, even though he had more points than most of the other d-men who made the team.

I don't see a bad defenseman. I see a very good skater with good offensive instincts and a great shot. Once he matures, he could be a Mike Green. But unless he completely transforms how he approaches the game, Hamilton will never be a player a coach confidently puts out against another team's top line while trying to protect a lead in a playoff game.

And I don't have any doubt that when it comes to character issues, where there's smoke there's fire. The brother babysitter thing. The tantrums in practice. The lack of discipline in important games. The defensive slackness. The questions around why he left Boston. Ducking the media on garbage bag day. Declining to go to the World Championships in 2016 even though he was healthy and doesn't have family responsibilities, and then (unsurprisingly, given that snub) apparently not even invited this year. The fact that when insiders were murmuring about character issues on the Flames, his name kept coming up. It all reeks of entitlement.