Van hits multiple pedestrians in Toronto

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Sorry ISIS.


Isn't that what I did:

Don't you mean, sorry all Muslims?

You addressed your post only after you felt you were called out on it. Once the driver was identified as having an Armenian name, it was pretty apparent that Islam or ISIS had nothing to do with it.

Face it. You made an assumption that was wrong and was made with no factual basis. If you don't understand why that is wrong, I don't know what to say to you.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I think its cartoon women are better than real women.

And then these guys sit back and wonder why they can't get laid?

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Don't you mean, sorry all Muslims?

You addressed your post only after you felt you were called out on it. Once the driver was identified as having an Armenian name, it was pretty apparent that Islam or ISIS had nothing to do with it.

Face it. You made an assumption that was wrong and was made with no factual basis. If you don't understand why that is wrong, I don't know what to say to you.

No, I don't mean all Muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists, you know.

I never stated eff all as fact. I was speculating, and again, it wasn't a nutso, tin-foil hat type of speculation.

Yes, it is now appearing that Islam or ISIS had nothing to do with it. You face it. You are speculating as much as anyone, are you not, based on a Facebook post? Unless you have some sort of inner knowledge.

Yes, I'll say it (again). It appears that I was wrong. I thought it entirely possible that this was racially, or more specifically, religiously motivated.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Because one of the common characteristics of incels as a group is that they have a fondness for that subgenre of anime. It's a noteworthy correlation (not a causation!) in the same sense that there's a known correlation between serial killers and people who abuse animals, for example. There's a very heavy overlap of the Venn diagram circles of "Is an incel", "Enjoys waifu anime", and "Has unrealistic expectations of women".

That doesn't make any sense.

The comparison of this being similar to serial killers who enjoy hurting animals is absolutely revolting and infuriating.

I think it is fair to say incels as a group have unrealistic expectations of women. To act like this is a feature that defines anime and isn't shared by so many popular western shows or forms of entertainment is ridiculous.

Japanese roleplaying video games must be the equivalent to being indoctrinated by ISIS if this were true. They're video games, they're anime, they're violent, they're sexual, and they present women in an unrealistic manner. We need to get Persona 5 off the streets! More Grand Theft Auto!

[MarchHare]

By the way, Ashasx, if there was a correlation with incels having a completely unrealistic view of women and dating from watching the subgenre of Hollywood movies where an unemployed, overweight, lazy man-child somehow hooks up with a beautiful and intelligent woman with a great career (e.g. many films starring Seth Rogen or Zach Galifianakis), I would have mentioned it. From what I've been able to see from incel culture, though, they don't seem to latch onto those films any more than the general public does. Waifu anime, on the other hand, is a form of entertainment many incels enjoy far more than well-adjusted individuals with respectful views of women.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

By the way, Ashasx, if there was a correlation with incels having a completely unrealistic view of women and dating from watching the subgenre of Hollywood movies where an unemployed, overweight, lazy man-child somehow hooks up with a beautiful and intelligent woman with a great career (e.g. many films starring Seth Rogen or Zach Galifianakis), I would have mentioned it. From what I've been able to see from incel culture, though, they don't seem to latch onto those films any more than the general public does. Waifu anime, on the other hand, is a form of entertainment many incels enjoy far more than well-adjusted individuals with respectful views of women.

Then why isn't Japan overrun with incels? Why is this predominantly a western phenomenon?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by schteve_d

No, I don't mean all Muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists, you know.

I never stated eff all as fact. I was speculating, and again, it wasn't a nutso, tin-foil hat type of speculation.

Yes, it is now appearing that Islam or ISIS had nothing to do with it. You face it. You are speculating as much as anyone, are you not, based on a Facebook post? Unless you have some sort of inner knowledge.

Yes, I'll say it (again). It appears that I was wrong. I thought it entirely possible that this was racially, or more specifically, religiously motivated.

You are aware that Armenians are Christians, right?

Yet despite everything published to the contrary and that no one, except anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim hate groups are suggesting that religion had anything to do with the attack, you keep hanging on to the idea "Well, it could still have been ISIS."

You can say it was fair to blame Islam and ISIS without having a single objective fact to back up that claim.

I say that it's fair to judge a man by the company he keeps.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

That doesn't make any sense.

The comparison of this being similar to serial killers who enjoy hurting animals is absolutely revolting and infuriating.

I think it is fair to say incels as a group have unrealistic expectations of women. To act like this is a feature that defines anime and isn't shared by so many popular western shows or forms of entertainment is ridiculous.

Japanese roleplaying video games must be the equivalent to being indoctrinated by ISIS if this were true. They're video games, they're anime, they're violent, they're sexual, and they present women in an unrealistic manner. We need to get Persona 5 off the streets! More Grand Theft Auto!

Good lord, why are you acting so defensive about this? Nothing I posted should be interpreted as a personal attack against you. I don't care if you like anime. I'm not criticizing anime as an art form. I'm not saying that people who watch anime are future serial killers. I just noted that one of the characteristics of incels as a group is that one of their favourite forms of entertainment is a particular subgenre of anime where women are portrayed in a completely sexist manner where they lack agency of their own. This is possibly a contributing factor into why incels have an unrealistic view of how women should behave in the real world. That's it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Then why isn't Japan overrun with incels? Why is this predominantly a western phenomenon?

It is.

But the women are too. There is no sex happening in Japan.

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Then why isn't Japan overrun with incels? Why is this predominantly a western phenomenon?

How do we know it's not occurring in Japan? Japan does have some of the highest suicide rates in the world. In Japan (and other Asian countries), the worst thing you can be is to be a burden to others, so maybe that's why they kill only themselves. In America, where there is a more individualistic culture, incels take a bunch of innocents with them before they die.

[schteve_d]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You are aware that Armenians are Christians, right?

Yet despite everything published to the contrary and that no one, except anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim hate groups are suggesting that religion had anything to do with the attack, you keep hanging on to the idea "Well, it could still have been ISIS."

You can say it was fair to blame Islam and ISIS without having a single objective fact to back up that claim.

I say that it's fair to judge a man by the company he keeps.

For the record, I was speculating long before his name was announced. And no, I was not aware that Armenians are Christian. I also wasn't aware that Minassian was an Armenia name, so I guess I could have still speculated the same even after I heard the name, so fair enough: judge away.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

It is.

It isn't. I've read that, and there is massive confusion between social reclusion and incels. What you've linked doesn't even know what an incel is.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/11/asia/...use/index.html

These people are Neets. Hikikomori. Not incels. A Neet can be an incel, but nothing indicates that these Neets hold derogatory opinions of females. These people are depressed and feel detached.

[afc wimbledon]

Christ anyone can get laid these days, its a golden age of meaningless easy shagging, if you cant find someone out there on line as lonely and pathetic as yourself to shag you are so effing dumb Darwin is breathing a sigh of relief for the human race.

Truth is they cant find someone that looks like Cameron Diaz that wants to shag them, not that they cant get laid.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Good lord, why are you acting so defensive about this? Nothing I posted should be interpreted as a personal attack against you. I don't care if you like anime. I'm not criticizing anime as an art form. I'm not saying that people who watch anime are future serial killers. I just noted that one of the characteristics of incels as a group is that one of their favourite forms of entertainment is a particular subgenre of anime where women are portrayed in a completely sexist manner where they lack agency of their own. This is possibly a contributing factor into why incels have an unrealistic view of how women should behave in the real world. That's it.

Enough of this "stop getting defensive". It's clear you are on the offensive. Your comparison in that post is absolutely putrid and embarrassing.

Anime is the dominant art style in Japan. Japan is also the largest producer or animated entertainment in the world. Virtually every cartoon that comes out of Japan is influenced by anime. You see this nowhere else in the world. American cartoons don't look like other American cartoons.

So if virtually every cartoon that comes out of one country is anime, of course there is going to be smut. We have smut in the US and Canada. It's called pornography.

It has nothing to do with anime. There is no causation, there is nothing here to berate people.

[puckedoff]

If you read this page of the thread, and then go back to page one, you will be quite surprised to find out it is about someone running over innocent people with a rental van.

[MarchHare]

What exactly am I "on the offensive" about? Many people in this thread remarked that they had never heard of incels prior to yesterday. I happen to know a bit about that group from prior exposure to them, so I shared some of what I had picked up. One common characteristic of many incels I noticed is that they have a fondness for a certain type of anime that depicts women in an unrealistic, sexist, subservient manner. For reasons I don't understand, you took exception to me noting that correlation and got defensive about it. And here we are.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

What exactly am I "on the offensive" about? Many people in this thread remarked that they had never heard of incels prior to yesterday. I happen to know a bit about that group from prior exposure to them, so I shared some of what I had picked up. One common characteristic of many incels I noticed is that they have a fondness for a certain type of anime that depicts women in an unrealistic, sexist, subservient manner. For reasons I don't understand, you took exception to me noting that correlation and got defensive about it. And here we are.

This is pornography. Sexual entertainment. As I've stated, with so much content produced under the same art style, of course someone is going to create content they would be embarrassed to tell their parents about.

It is no more an anime phenomenon that it is for any other form of western entertainment. The difference is, anime look like other anime.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

If you read this page of the thread, and then go back to page one, you will be quite surprised to find out it is about someone running over innocent people with a rental van.

While this is an amusing observation, I suspect that it is one which could be made about nearly any forum thread exceeding five pages anywhere on the internet.

[schteve_d]

From CNN:

Facts:
Al Qaeda's Yemeni branch encouraged its Western recruits to use trucks as weapons. A 2010 webzine article, "The Ultimate Mowing Machine," called for deploying a pickup truck as a "mowing machine, not to mow grass but mow down the enemies of Allah."

In September 2014, ISIS spokesman Abu Mohammad al-Adnani called for lone wolf attacks using improvised weaponry, "If you are not able to find an IED or a bullet, then single out the disbelieving American, Frenchman or any of their allies. Smash his head with a rock or slaughter him with a knife or run him over with your car or throw him down from a high place or choke him or poison him."

Timeline:

March 3, 2006 - Mohammed Taheri-azar, an Iranian-American, drives an SUV into an area crowded with students at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Nine people sustain minor injuries during the attack, which Teheri-azar later says is retribution for the killing of Muslims overseas. He is convicted of attempted murder in 2008 and is sentenced to 33 years in prison.

October 22, 2014 - A three-month old girl and an Ecuadorian tourist are killed when a driver swerves into a crowd at a light rail station in Jerusalem. The driver, Abdel Rahman al-Shaludi is shot and killed by police. Israeli media reported he published militant writing on Facebook and supported Hamas, a fundamentalist Islamic group that has conducted attacks in Gaza and the West Bank, but his family denied he supported Hamas or any terror organization.

July 14, 2016 - After a Bastille Day fireworks display in Nice, France, a man drives a 20-ton rental truck into the crowd, striking and killing 86 people. The attacker, Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, 31, a Tunisian national, drives nearly a mile on the beachfront promenade before he is shot and killed by authorities. French officials say Bouhlel seemed to become radicalized "very quickly" by ISIS propaganda before the attack. He also suffered from mental illness, according to his father.

November 28, 2016 - At Ohio State University, 11 people are injured when a student, Abdul Razak Ali Artan, 18, carries out a car and knife attack. A campus police officer shoots and kills Artan, whom police believe was inspired by ISIS and the radical cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki.
December 19, 2016 - A Tunisian man drives a tractor trailer into a Christmas market in Berlin, killing 12 people. In the wake of the attack, authorities conduct a manhunt for Anis Amri, 24, throughout Europe. He is shot and killed by police in Milan, Italy, four days after the attack. Hours after Amri dies, ISIS releases a video of him pledging allegiance to the terrorist group.

March 22, 2017 - A man drives an SUV into a crowd on the sidewalk along the Westminster Bridge in London, killing at least four. After ramming the car into a barrier outside the House of Parliament, the driver exits the vehicle and stabs a police officer to death. The attacker is then gunned down by a police officer. The assailant, Khalid Masood, 52, of West Midlands, reportedly had a criminal record and may have had connections to violent extremism, British Prime Minister Theresa May says.

April 7, 2017 - At least four people are killed when a truck drives into pedestrians on a busy street in the center of Stockholm, Sweden, before crashing into a department store. The attacker, Rakhmat Akilov, a 39-year-old from Uzbekistan, admitted to carrying out a "terrorist crime," his lawyer says.

June 3, 2017 - Eight people are killed in two terror attacks in central London before police shoot three suspects dead, the Metropolitan police say. The violence begins when a van swerves into throngs of pedestrians on London Bridge. The suspects then jump out the van and proceed on foot to nearby Borough Market, a popular nightlife spot, where witnesses say they produce knives and slash indiscriminately at people in restaurants and bars. At least 48 people are taken to hospitals, according to the London Ambulance Service.

June 19, 2017 - Just after midnight, a van plows into a group of pedestrians who had attended late-night prayers at London's Finsbury Park Mosque, killing one man and injuring 11 people. The driver is arrested at the scene for attempted murder and further held on suspicion of terrorism offenses. The suspect is later identified as Darren Osborne, 47, a resident of Cardiff in Wales, according to multiple UK media outlets. Osborne is later sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum term of 43 years.

August 16-18, 2017 - At least 13 people are killed and about 100 are injured on August 17th after a van plows through a crowd of people in a popular tourist district in Barcelona, Spain. Two suspects are arrested, but the driver gets away, according to police. ISIS' media wing, Amaq, issues a statement claiming responsibility, saying that the attackers are "soldiers of the Islamic State." On August 18th, in Cambrils, a coastal city around 100 kilometers from Barcelona, five attackers drive an Audi A3 into several pedestrians, killing one. The attackers are shot and killed by police. A house explosion on August 16th, in Alcanar, south of Barcelona, is also believed to be connected to the attacks.

September 30-October 1, 2017 - On September 30 in Edmonton, Canada, a man purposely strikes a police officer with a white Chevrolet Malibu before jumping out of the vehicle, stabbing the officer several times with a knife and fleeing on foot. There is an ISIS flag in the car, which is later seized as evidence. Just before midnight that same day, a police officer stops a U-Haul truck at a checkpoint and recognizes the driver's name as similar to that of the Chevrolet's registered owner. The U-Haul truck then speeds off towards downtown Edmonton. During the chase, the truck deliberately attempts to hit pedestrians in crosswalks and alleys, injuring at least four pedestrians. Abdulahi Hasan Sharif, 30, a Somali refugee, is later charged with five counts of attempted murder, dangerous driving, criminal flight causing bodily harm and possession of a weapon for a dangerous purpose.

October 31, 2017 - Eight people are killed and almost a dozen injured when a 29-year-old man in a rented pickup truck drives down a busy bicycle path near the World Trade Center in New York. The captured suspect has been identified as Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov. Authorities found a note near the truck used in the incident, claiming the attack was made in the name of ISIS, a senior law enforcement official said.

When a similar-style attack occurs, I think it is (now, sadly) common to speculate on the motive.

I will quote my very first post in the thread that alludes to my speculation that this could have been a terrorist attack:

Originally Posted by schteve_d

Not sure that personal notoriety is the end game so I'm not sure this matters. Obviously we don't know in this situation yet, but I'd say in most the goal is, I guess you could say, open protest or a type of war attack on an ideology. That will get out regardless.

I can't speak for everyone that thought the same thing that I did immediately upon hearing about this but that is the first place my mind went. Give up your righteousness Longsuffering. If you really need to hear it again: It appears that you are right and I am wrong.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You are aware that Armenians are Christians, right?

Yet despite everything published to the contrary and that no one, except anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim hate groups are suggesting that religion had anything to do with the attack, you keep hanging on to the idea "Well, it could still have been ISIS."

You can say it was fair to blame Islam and ISIS without having a single objective fact to back up that claim.

I say that it's fair to judge a man by the company he keeps.

I dunno. If you go back and read his posts in this thread, I think you are going after some other guy