[News] Flames hire Bill Peters as the franchise's 19th head coach

[ricardodw]

Cause for concern:

It is really important to get the most out of your guys that have 10+ million guaranteed contracts.

There is not a lot of levers that a coach has to bend them to playing the style that he feels is best for the team. You can't get rid of them or put them in the stands or even put them on the 4th line without risking your career.

On the Flames there are 10+ players that have more than 10M guaranteed.

On the Canes Peters had 5.


I can see Sutter and/or AV calling out the core players for not playing hard enough.

I do not see Peters calling out Monahan for not jumping in to protect Gaudreau or to tell Gaudreau to stop whining or Hamilton for getting lost on the ice.


I don't believe that Peters is the best fit for this talented underachieving team.

[heep223]

Why do the flames keep plucking coaches from ####ty organizations like the Canucks and Hurricanes. I don’t know anything about Peters but I’m concerned primarily for that reason.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They aren’t a good roster
Mainly because they had awful goaltending
The forward group is interesting but a guy like Terevainen shouldn’t be on a top line
They lack elite talent and players

Jiri, Teravainen had 23 goals and 64 points last season. He's not elite, but those are easily top line offensive numbers. He was also +8 so doesn't look like he was in over his head at all. I'd take that on my top line anytime.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

This kinda logic always cracks me. Just cause some fans on here show their displeasure with the way things are going, doesn't make them any less of Flames fans. Many didn't like the Glutuzan hire and look how well that turned out. It upsets us when the team is being run into the ground and some of us are sick of "wait and see approach". Some of the people here that always accept what the team does, remind me off Browns fans. Cheer on every move, then hate it when things don't go well...and rinse and repeat every offseason.

People say Treliving will learn from his mistakes, but there is no evidence to suggest that he has. I mean at this point there was no point in jumping the gun and hiring a guy that has a .500 record in the NHL. I am sorry but one WHL championship and a Gold in international competition don't instil confidence in the new hire. Short tournament vs. a long season is two different animals. Rival coaches in the NHL have more time to adjust to strategies. I would take a coach that has only missed the playoffs twice in 11 years vs. one that has only had a 5 point bump in points over four years any day.

But Treliving is shoving his philosophy down our throats again. He believes his is the only way, which to me suggests he's stubborn and refusing to correct his mistakes. Most people are waiting for him to make moves this offseason, I am wondering if he will trade another first round pick to get it done. Treliving should have lottery protected the first round pick and if that was the price, he should have walked away. But he was too focused on getting his player, that Snow bent him over. Whats stopping other GMs from taking advantage of him in the future, knowing he wants the player he targets.

But listening to Treliving talk about the process during his press conference, while already having his mind made up suggests that he zeros in on his targets and doesn't thoroughly evaluate everything. He reminds me off former Jacksonville Jaguars GM Gene Smith, who demonstrated similar characteristics of a hard-worker but used to zero in on his players as well. He wasted countless draft picks and had zero picks turn into Pro Bowlers. I fear I am seeing a similar pattern in Treliving, who seems to be stuck in his ways and doesn't want to change course.

I am for one am not happy with the hire. I hope I am wrong and I will happily eat crow, but there is nothing to suggest otherwise.

This is exactly the kind of thing he's talking about though.

What do you mean there is nothing to suggest otherwise? What does that even mean? What could there be? And what other coaching candidate could provide contrary evidence? And why start off thinking you need evidence to prove they won't suck? Maybe you should have to provide evidence they do suck (which is impossible since it is the off season).

The entire "I'm going to assume we suck and trash everything that happens until proven otherwise" is such a terrible way to waste being a fan of a team. It's also a self fulfilling prophecy because about 25 teams in the league every year could fit that category. The list of reasons to say you knew all along they sucked is a long one and it makes it way too easy to be skeptical all the time and just say you knew better than everyone else from the start.

It's funny because there's been a lot of insults going around about people being blind followers of the team and trusting Tre and not expecting more from this franchise but it is always way, way easier to be a pessimist when it comes to sports teams. Just crapping on every move has a way higher percentage of being right because for most teams, most years they won't achieve their goals. That's the cop out. Being optimistic is the hard part.

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if your posts, and the others like them, that obsessively focus on every bad move and exaggerate and use excessive hyperbole to describe every trade, signing, hire and draft pick an then use your own heavily biased viewpoint as "proof" that Tre sucks and we are destined for failure comes across as someone who would rather the team suck.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Goaltending is mainly a function of the team.

Yes Darling had a bad year one year but the save percentage that follows Peters is roughly .905

I don’t know that I agree with that
Bad goaltending can also be bad goaltending
We have certainly seen that here

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Jiri, Teravainen had 23 goals and 64 points last season. He's not elite, but those are easily top line offensive numbers. He was also +8 so doesn't look like he was in over his head at all. I'd take that on my top line anytime.

He had a good year but someone had to get that ice and score for the canes
I don’t see him as a particularly hard match up or great two way player which is what I think you need on a top line.
He’s a skilled player that in my view best slots on the second line

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Cause for concern:

It is really important to get the most out of your guys that have 10+ million guaranteed contracts.

There is not a lot of levers that a coach has to bend them to playing the style that he feels is best for the team. You can't get rid of them or put them in the stands or even put them on the 4th line without risking your career.

On the Flames there are 10+ players that have more than 10M guaranteed.

On the Canes Peters had 5.


I can see Sutter and/or AV calling out the core players for not playing hard enough.

I do not see Peters calling out Monahan for not jumping in to protect Gaudreau or to tell Gaudreau to stop whining or Hamilton for getting lost on the ice.


I don't believe that Peters is the best fit for this talented underachieving team.

I might not like the hire right now but one thing I'm not worried about is Peters calling out players. He had no problem doing that in Carolina .

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don’t know that I agree with that
Bad goaltending can also be bad goaltending
We have certainly seen that here

We have also seen what the eye test shows to be a good goalie get beaten up by bad team defense.

Was Smith a bad goal tender all along or did the team in front of him wear him out? #20 of goalies with more than 20 games in Sv%. #24 in GAA.

[edslunch]

Not excited about this hire. I know nothing about him but his mediocre at best career record is a huge concern. This is not someone who has a pedigree of winning wherever he went. And yes I believe there is such a thing as people who are winners and that matters.

Having said that, if this is the pick I will go into next season with hope and excitement as anything is possible. I won’t second guess the decision, jump to point out flaws, or call for his firing at the first sign of trouble. Let’s let it play out and hopefully enjoy the ride.

But if it’s another lost season the whole organization can be turfed.

[Racki]

I'm still not tremendously excited about what appears to be the inevitable hire of Bill Peters, even after a good night's sleep. I (we) have no choice but to be hopeful and maybe whatever it is that Treliving sees in this coach results in plenty of Flames wins.

If we're being honest we have to admit that there were stretches during Gultuzan's tenure as coach that were exciting - the team looked good - maybe even fast? Those stretches just didn't happen often enough.

My biggest complaint with Gulutzan was his questionable player usage and his unwavering belief in his system that paralyzed him from making changes that seemed so obvious to everyone that watches this team.

Right or wrong the hockey world seems to put coaches into two categories lately, they're either "old school" motivators and bench bosses or they're "Corsi" guys that coach to win the possession game.

My hope, and I'm assuming that Treliving's hope is that Bill Peters has enough of both to make this choice a successful one. I'm going to hope that Peters, like Gulutzan continues to improve our possession numbers and keep us moving positively in that direction. I'm also hoping that Peters, unlike Gulutzan does a better job of managing player usage, prepares our team to perform in big spots, allows for some flexibility and is willing to try different things to get the most out of the group as a whole.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

We have also seen what the eye test shows to be a good goalie get beaten up by bad team defense.

Was Smith a bad goal tender all along or did the team in front of him wear him out? #20 of goalies with more than 20 games in Sv%. #24 in GAA.

I think the team started to play worse but he also wore out himself
They overplayed him

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I might not like the hire right now but one thing I'm not worried about is Peters calling out players. He had no problem doing that in Carolina .

Same as Hartley... you have a lot of leverage on guys whose careers you can ruin. Different when calling out someone who can tell the GM to get rid of you.

[OldDutch]

This is a lateral move to me, but whatever. I used to get my expectations up most years only to have it be a let down. See Every year we “stack” the d-core.

Low expectations finally on this, so I guess nothing lost and possibly something to gain.

Kind of the state of the fan base right now. GG just killed this team and its fans.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

This kinda logic always cracks me. Just cause some fans on here show their displeasure with the way things are going, doesn't make them any less of Flames fans. Many didn't like the Glutuzan hire and look how well that turned out. It upsets us when the team is being run into the ground and some of us are sick of "wait and see approach".

Pretty much this.

Last summer it was made pretty clear that this was supposed to be our window. Playoffs were to be expected, 100 point season was the goal. Ton of draft picks sold. The rebuild is over, we're going for it. This was the message from management last summer, no two ways about it.

Then we get a terrible disappointment of a season. The least entertaining hockey the Flames have played possibly ever, and not even close to making the playoffs. 84 points is a complete disaster.

This was supposed to be the payoff for sticking with the team through all the bad years, and it was just a massive letdown.

I already consider not firing Gulutzan during the season a terrible non-decision by Treliving. You have to give the fans some reason to watch the games. Hiring Peters is just asking for too much faith. I am not interested in seeing what he brings. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but if there's just more disappointment behind every corner, at some point I have to decide that I'm just not going to wait and see.

There's nothing suggesting that Peters is a particularly good coach. He might be better than his record, but there is just nothing in his record to suggest he is. What we do know is that he employs mostly the same system as what Gulutzan used, a system people have learned to loathe. The system that produced what many considered to be the most unwatchable Flames hockey ever.

Maybe it will be different. Maybe he'll make some important changes. Maybe not. The mystery box could be anything. But right now the only positive thing about Peters I've read is that he's not literally Glen Gulutzan. That is just not a lot sunshine.

I'm already at a point where I've mostly given up on this team. I'm perfectly fine with someone not calling me a fan anymore. That's how fed up I am. Right now I'm just hoping that these Peters rumours are false, or that the reaction from the fans to the rumours make someone in the organization reconsider what they're doing.

I've already said it a few times, I've mostly given up on the team already. I really need something to renew my interest. Fair or not, rational or not, Bill Peters is definitely not it.

[ricardodw]

I think that hiring Peters is the safest thing that Trevling/Burke can do to extend their own career.

AV Sutter Trotz would have enough jam and reputation to push back and call the GM out.

Pretty sure that if they were hired as coach and the Flames were not to make the playoffs that Trevling would be fired first.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don’t know that I agree with that
Bad goaltending can also be bad goaltending
We have certainly seen that here

I realize my post was too short. You are right in that Calgary is a poor place to use as a reference, with no stability and some highly unusual goaltending situations. (Hiller was a very special kind of bad one year after being pretty good the year prior. And they had some other guys like Ortio, Berra, etc who were debatable as NHL quality goalies. Also the 3 goalie situation and not being able to have normal practices for a quarter of the season - shame on Treliving. )

It kind of breaks down like this. Based on the number and type of shots a goalie faces, they have an expected save percentage. Expected sv% on clean shots they can get in position for is about 95 percent. And for shots which follow a pass, it is something low, like .650. Etc.

For the most part, proven NHL goaltenders dropped in to a team have an expected save percentage, however a guy like Hiller playing like a sieve can quickly shave points off of it.

They way Peters had the Canes playing, it seems like .900-.910 is that expected range

You know what, I may just make a separate thread on this topic

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I realize my post was too short. You are right in that Calgary is a poor place to use as a reference, with no stability and some highly unusual goaltending situations. (Hiller was a very special kind of bad one year after being pretty good the year prior. And they had some other guys like Ortio, Berra, etc who were debatable as NHL quality goalies)

It kind of breaks down like this. Based on the number and type of shots a goalie faces, they have an expected save percentage. Expected sv% on clean shots they can get in position for is about 95 percent. And for shots which follow a pass, it is something low, like .650. Etc.

For the most part, proven NHL goaltenders dropped in to a team have an expected save percentage, however a guy like Hiller playing like a sieve can quickly shave points off of it.

They way Peters had the Canes playing, it seems like .900-.910 is that expected range

You know what, I may just make a separate thread on this topic

It is a topic worth deeper discussion, as I think that bad teams create bad goaltending. However, in the case of the Canes they also took a chance on a guy who had never been a #1 in Darling.

From listening to some of the Canes reporters int he last couple days certainly it sounds like he was awful. One I think referred to his goaltending as "borderline criminally bad"

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This is exactly the kind of thing he's talking about though.

What do you mean there is nothing to suggest otherwise? What does that even mean? What could there be? And what other coaching candidate could provide contrary evidence? And why start off thinking you need evidence to prove they won't suck? Maybe you should have to provide evidence they do suck (which is impossible since it is the off season).

The entire "I'm going to assume we suck and trash everything that happens until proven otherwise" is such a terrible way to waste being a fan of a team. It's also a self fulfilling prophecy because about 25 teams in the league every year could fit that category. The list of reasons to say you knew all along they sucked is a long one and it makes it way too easy to be skeptical all the time and just say you knew better than everyone else from the start.

It's funny because there's been a lot of insults going around about people being blind followers of the team and trusting Tre and not expecting more from this franchise but it is always way, way easier to be a pessimist when it comes to sports teams. Just crapping on every move has a way higher percentage of being right because for most teams, most years they won't achieve their goals. That's the cop out. Being optimistic is the hard part.

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if your posts, and the others like them, that obsessively focus on every bad move and exaggerate and use excessive hyperbole to describe every trade, signing, hire and draft pick an then use your own heavily biased viewpoint as "proof" that Tre sucks and we are destined for failure comes across as someone who would rather the team suck.

This is exactly the type of Cleveland Browns' fan mentality I am talking about. Always thinking things will be great, till they are not. I guess you can continue cheering with your pom poms.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Reign of Fire

This is exactly the type of Cleveland Browns' fan mentality I am talking about. Always thinking things will be great, till they are not. I guess you can continue cheering with your pom poms.

I think the fact that this is your reaction to my post, which didn't speak a word of my own mentality, says a lot more about what kind of fan you want to be. Just crap on everything all the time and take the most negative outlook possible while ####ting on everyone who isn't as pessimistic as you. Like I said, it's a cop out. Easiest way to be right as a fan is to predict failure every season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

It is a topic worth deeper discussion, as I think that bad teams create bad goaltending. However, in the case of the Canes they also took a chance on a guy who had never been a #1 in Darling.

From listening to some of the Canes reporters int he last couple days certainly it sounds like he was awful. One I think referred to his goaltending as "borderline criminally bad"

Understood, and that was only one year of 4.

Again, the baseline for Peters seems to be around .905 with Ward approaching .910 and his backup around .900, but Darling had a rough year and checked in at .888