[News Roundup] Garbage bag day: Monahan had 4 surgeries!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But what is Gillies an example of? He's a draft pick that we are still uncertain about. It appears you're putting him into a group of later round hits?

I think he's an NHL calibre goalie, at least as a backup level and possibly better. For me that's a third round hit.

I agree that the Flames have too few hits from later rounds. However, given the time Treliving has had, I think it's a bit early to judge his later round success, given the time that such players usually take.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

As a DBA/System admin I incorporated goflamesgo into various passwords so Oilers and Leafs fans would have to think goflamesgo to log in.

I never ever suggested that Tkachuk is overrated.

The only possible criticism that I have had of Gio is that when he was hurt I thought the team was done and they went and won a playoff series without him. He is going to go down as one of best player to never prove to himself in the playoffs.

Brodie is a high skilled player that played with courage.

Gaudreau is great ... he is small and would actually be elite if his supporting cast was significantly more physical. I really can't see that he will not be leaving as soon as possible. He gets the slashing and whines. There should be no whining just immediate and disproportionate retaliation by his teammates. In the playoffs there was and would be fear for his safety.

I argued long and hard that Monahan be the Flames pick rather than Lindholm as Lindholm had basically no penalties playing in Sweden. He is a great skilled player. He isn't tough to play against. Do you think he is hard to play against?

I do have a couple of objections with Hamilton. He was rewarded with a big contract based solely on potential. He was brought in at a huge price and was pretty much a disaster .. He made everyone he played with worse. I had bought into nothing given everything earned. His treatment was the antithesis of that standard. He does not give any impression of being a team player and has not worked or studied hard enough to improve his defense play. He seems to play for the name on the back rather than the crest on the front.

The Flames management are always looking for a quick fix. Throw money and Draft picks at it.

They don't seem to have a handle on how important it is to have value contracts... ELCs where the players play at a higher level than they are paid.

I guess I can't be a fan of the Flames if I can see the problems and want them corrected.

Are you satisfied with the makeup and direction of the Flames? Are they as good as the Jets? or Predators. or Golden Knights? Right now the Canucks are closer to being a top 8 team than the Flames.

What is your timeline for the Flames being a top 8 team? It seems that a lot of posters here are sounding like Lowe era oiler fans..... oooh so close..one aging overpaid UFA away.

Yes I guess I am a Jets fan. I am excited how as a perennial crappy team has turned into a real SC contender.

Last year I was an Oilers fan as they had their first good team in a decade.

I guess I am just worn out by not enjoying the playoffs by not having a horse in the race.

That was a very well written post that I can relate to, I'm frustrated too. It's just that to me you come across a lot more rah rah in your other posts and they aren't as nuanced as this.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Quantity of picks is I think the main issue
More bullets in the chamber = more chances to hit

Exactly, so I guess we're on the same page. So you agree then that this is one issue with an otherwise skilled GM in Brad Trelving - That he was great at pick accumulation to start the rebuild but then swung the pendulum the complete opposite direction after the successful Dougie trade?

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Quantity of picks is I think the main issue
More bullets in the chamber = more chances to hit

Sure worked out well for us in 2013, didn't it?

Quality and quantity of picks are both long-standing issues for this club.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think he's an NHL calibre goalie, at least as a backup level and possibly better. For me that's a third round hit.

I agree that the Flames have too few hits from later rounds. However, given the time Treliving has had, I think it's a bit early to judge his later round success, given the time that such players usually take.

Disagree entirely on Gillies being a third round hit. He's not an NHL caliber goalie, he's like a million goalie prospects with minimal NHL experience that show signs of swimming and signs of sinking.

He hasn't shown even close to enough yet to suggest he's closer to being an NHL goalie/back up than being a non NHL'er.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Sure worked out well for us in 2013, didn't it?

Quality and quantity of picks are both long-standing issues for this club.

But his point about the drafting strategy changing under Brad Treliving and starting to show signs giving us more hits is fair, though. I know it's hard to quantify as you need 5 years to really start to see what you have and he's been involved in only three drafts.

But to me even league wide prospect rankings, both individual and team based are showing a much different picture than the Flames of past.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Exactly, so I guess we're on the same page. So you agree then that this is one issue with an otherwise skilled GM in Brad Trelving - That he was great at pick accumulation to start the rebuild but then swung the pendulum the complete opposite direction after the successful Dougie trade?

He swing the pendulum based on where he figured the team was in the rebuilding timeline, though. And I don't think most people here disagreed with the assessment of the team's development. Turning a second rounder into a third year player (Lazar) seems reasonable if you don't want to wait three years for a third/fourth liner.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Sure worked out well for us in 2013, didn't it?

Quality and quantity of picks are both long-standing issues for this club.

Again this is cherry picking
Over the long term having more picks pays dividends
Isolating any evaluation down to single years or picks isn’t a good enough way of looking at this

[Angelino]

Not lottery protecting the 1st round pick in the Hamonic trade is inexcusable regardless of how good management thought the team was going to be. It’s incompetence on a grand scale shown by Treliving and is also one of the reasons I do not feel he will be able to build a Stanley cup contender in Calgary. Couple this with waivering on firing Gulutzan and it really makes you shake your head in disbelief.

That is just my opinion, I am sure there are others on how great Treliving is, I just don’t see it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Angelino

Not lottery protecting the 1st round pick in the Hamonic trade is inexcusable regardless of how good management thought the team was going to be. It’s incompetence on a grand scale shown by Treliving and is also one of the reasons I do not feel he will be able to build a Stanley cup contender in Calgary. Couple this with waivering on firing Gulutzan and it really makes you shake your head in disbelief.

That is just my opinion, I am sure there are others on how great Treliving is, I just don’t see it.

I'm sure he didn't just forget to protect it. It was far more likely what NYI wanted and he made a calculated guess as to whether Calgary would be a lottery team and, even if they were, what the odds of the lottery would be.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm sure he didn't just forget to protect it. It was far more likely what NYI wanted and he made a calculated guess as to whether Calgary would be a lottery team and, even if they were, what the odds of the lottery would be.

He guessed wrong. He guessed wrong on Gulutzan. He guessed wrong on Brouwer. He guessed wrong on Lazar. He hasn’t been a great guesser so far. 30 year of futility takes a lot of bad guesses over the years. Treliving is doing his predecessors proud by picking up the mantle of mediocrity.

I am just hoping he isn’t being influenced/overridden on certain decisions by Burke. If he is I think we have another “fun” couple of years ahead of us.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Angelino

He guessed wrong. He guessed wrong on Gulutzan. He guessed wrong on Brouwer. He guessed wrong on Lazar. He hasn’t been a great guesser so far. 30 year of futility takes a lot of bad guesses over the years. Treliving is doing his predecessors proud by picking up the mantle of mediocrity.

I am just hoping he isn’t being influenced/overridden on certain decision by Burke.

The Lazar trade was fine. He's better than what the 2nd would be quite likely, and able to play now rather than in a few years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Angelino

He guessed wrong. He guessed wrong on Gulutzan. He guessed wrong on Brouwer. He guessed wrong on Lazar. He hasn’t been a great guesser so far. 30 year of futility takes a lot of bad guesses over the years. Treliving is doing his predecessors proud by picking up the mantle of mediocrity.

I am just hoping he isn’t being influenced/overridden on certain decision by Burke.

You don't know if he's guessed wrong yet. The lottery hasn't happened. Plus, I think Hamonic will be worth the price, unless it's Dahlin. I also think Lazar is easily worth a second round pick.

Brouwer was a bad signing. It happens. He also signed Frolik, traded for Hamilton and Smith, signed Versteeg. Is he's the best GM in the league? No but it's pretty early to judge a GM.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by the2bears

The Lazar trade was fine. He's better than what the 2nd would be quite likely, and able to play now rather than in a few years.

I would rather have the 2nd rounder than an AHL/4th liner. It’s a good assset that can be traded or packaged for an upgrade at a position. Throwing away 2nds on trash isn’t good asset management in my opinion.

But I can see your point as well the way Calgary drafts. Might as well get a 4th liner than the usual hit and miss Calgary usually orchestrates at the draft!

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You don't know if he's guessed wrong yet. The lottery hasn't happened. Plus, I think Hamonic will be worth the price, unless it's Dahlin. I also think Lazar is easily worth a second round pick.

Brouwer was a bad signing. It happens. He also signed Frolik, traded for Hamilton and Smith, signed Versteeg. Is he's the best GM in the league? No but it's pretty early to judge a GM.

I don’t think Hamonic will be worth it at the end of the day. Nobody knows yet, it will take time, but I don’t think Hamonic is going to make the difference in making Calgary a contender. I am thinking a similar caliber player could’ve been had for less. I do like the contract however but not for a unprotected 1st and 2 seconds. I’m wondering if Treliving tried trading Hamonic in the offseason if he could get an unprotected 1st and
2 seconds? I’m thinking no. Maybe from Edmonton?

I have no faith in Lazar. He is good for 4th line duty, AHL or the press box. Hopefully I am wrong. I liked the Hamilton deal. I also don’t like the fact Gulutzan is still employed.

Smith was decent this year but think he might be a mess next year as signs of age are showing. Wasn’t there some sort of deal for Bishop at the draft that didn’t materialize? Wasn’t sure the details of that or if it was just pure rumor.

[the2bears]

^ It has nothing to do with "the way Calgary drafts", but rather with the way everyone drafts. Lazar is better than a vast majority of 2nd round picks will be. And he's ready now. Improving upon a 2nd round pick is good asset management.

Your point about an asset for trades is valid, though.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by the2bears

^ It has nothing to do with "the way Calgary drafts", but rather with the way everyone drafts. Lazar is better than a vast majority of 2nd round picks will be. And he's ready now. Improving upon a 2nd round pick is good asset management.

Your point about an asset for trades is valid, though.

I don’t think a majority of GMs would trade a 2nd for him at this point. It’s good to try to improve the team and I’m sure he thought he would make a bigger impact on the team. However, I think a player of his caliber is easily acquired for less. Lazar is a waiver wire candidate in the making.

My point is I’m not impressed with Trelivings decision making in general (draft, coaching choice, asset management). If you are, that’s great. Calgary isn’t a relevant franchise due to the accumulation of all these bad decisions. Why are franchises like Nashville and Anaheim consistently good? I don’t think it’s luck.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by the2bears

^ It has nothing to do with "the way Calgary drafts", but rather with the way everyone drafts. Lazar is better than a vast majority of 2nd round picks will be. And he's ready now. Improving upon a 2nd round pick is good asset management.

Your point about an asset for trades is valid, though.

2nd round picks have been known to turn into superstars, whereas Lazar will always be a dime a dozen player you can pick up on waivers. If you keep making deals like that you will always be a contender... for 9th place.

[Machiavelli]

I would bet Lazar is out of the league in a couple of years. Skating well isn't good enough; you need to have other skills to survive.

Barely more useful than a warm body, waste of an acquisition.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

2nd round picks have been known to turn into superstars, whereas Lazar will always be a dime a dozen player you can pick up on waivers. If you keep making deals like that you will always be a contender... for 9th place.

Yes, they might. Even 4th round picks, too. Still, odds aren't great.