A lot of Rangers fans seemed rather relieved that he got fired. So it got me interested in reading articles on AV and seeing why he was let go even though he had winning records with two different teams and brought them to the playoffs several times and Stanley Cup Finals. Every year I was shocked with how NY would be able to make it to the playoffs with their roster talent (maybe it's me not watching them play/western bias).
Anyways, it appears that he had been let go for teams starting to go into rebuild mode (even when Van didn't want to admit it). Fans started wanting to see their young players starting to play instead of seeing the old players even though it may not translate to more success (see articles about developing players below). Seeing how Tortorella came into Vancouver after AV and also sputtered (36-35-0-11) also shows that AV was working with a weak/not deep team. That Vancouver team has gone on a tailspin since AV left.
A knock on AV's teams was that he was unable to generate secondary scoring. Which also plagues this Flames team. It's interesting to see that they really only had a few high-impact scorers on those teams (Sedins, Kesler, Nash, Richards) and his secondary scorers had to be his primary scorers (Burrows, Samuelsson, Raymond, Zuccarello, Stepan, Brassard, Kreider, Hayes, Miller). I do think that this Flames team has better talent in their secondary scoring than those Vancouver and NYR teams, but there is some bias in that statement.
The defense on both teams (Van/NYR) were quite mediocre with very few high-impact Defenseman. He had Erhoff, Edler, Hamhuis, Bieksa, 35 year old Sami Salo and Ballard in Vancouver and McDonagh, Girardi, Holden, Moore, Marc Staal, Stralman, Skjei, Shattenkirk (46 games), Klein, and 39-year old Dan Boyle in NY. No real game-breaking defenseman besides perhaps Shattenkirk and McDonagh.
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In the end, Vigneault could not coax more goals out of secondary offensive players that displayed plenty of heart but limited scoring skill.
Agendas, however, can be harpooned by simple wins and losses. Vigneault squeezed every regular-season point he could from his flawed roster. But at playoff time, when intensity and physicality increased, the Canucks weren’t good enough.
Another note from reading other fans is that he rode on hot goaltenders like Lundqvist and Luongo/Schneider. Which is something to consider when looking at a coach. However, is it a coach/team defense that can get the most out of his goalies or do the goalies bail out the coaches? Chicken and egg kind of situation. Maybe a bit of both, as looking at the goaltenders that AV has been able to develop with the teams he was with. Most notably Luongo/Schneider and Lundqvist/Raanta/Talbot. I believe that Smith in net is similar level (maybe a bit less) than Luongo/Schneider and Lundqvist.
Rangers fans seem to dislike the deployment of Buchnevich this season, but he has had a great rookie season with 43points in 74 games. Where Zuccarello has had 53 points in 80GP as NYR's top scorer. A lot of articles of why he was fired in Vancouver was that he couldn't "develop" players. It's understandable that he couldn't develop players like the ones in the quote below. Simply put that they are no good.
Quote:
During his time here, Vigneault displayed an inability to consistently nurture young talent..
To his credit, Vigneault developed the likes of Ryan Kesler, Jannik Hansen and Chris Tanev. But more strikingly, players like Cody Hodgson and Zack Kassian could never find their way out of his doghouse...
Clearly, young players who were committed to defense first (like Tanev and Hansen) would be in the good books of Vigneault, while those with creative offensive instincts (Hodgson and Kassian) would be forever shackled.
"I've gone through every facet, whether it be a young team, an old team, once we know the team, every year is the same thing," Vigneault said. "Once we know the team we try and put in a system, it maximizes their talent and their potential and try and mask and work on the areas that we need improvement."
All in all, I think that AV would be a great coach for this team because he says he tries to maximize the roster talent. It sounds a little different than what Gulutzen is putting forward as he is implementing a system (50/50 hockey) regardless of personnel strengths (Brodie only on the left side, Brouwer being RH shot = must need a RH shot on the PP, etc.). I think AV would do wonders to really maximize this flames rosters talents and being able to push to be in a playoff spot. How he was able to be a playoff coach almost every year with the weak rosters (besides his goalies and few prolific goalscorers) he had is a testament to how he is a great coach in my opinion.
Last edited by dfsflamesfan; 04-08-2018 at 02:00 PM.
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Jagr has never said a single bad word about his treatment by the Flames. He came to camp not ready and got injured and it snowballed. Flames worked with him to rehabilitate and it didn’t work.
This is from yesterday and it doesn’t sound like a man with a grudge. He is still injured back home.
All in all, I think that AV would be a great coach for this team because he says he tries to maximize the roster talent. It sounds a little different than what Gulutzen is putting forward as he is implementing a system (50/50 hockey) regardless of personnel strengths (Brodie only on the left side, Brouwer being RH shot = must need a RH shot on the PP, etc.). I think AV would do wonders to really maximize this flames rosters talents and being able to push to be in a playoff spot. How he was able to be a playoff coach almost every year with the weak rosters (besides his goalies and few prolific goalscorers) he had is a testament to how he is a great coach in my opinion.
Great post! I’m out of thanks. Not only because I agree. This should be an article on the main page; the case for AV. And maybe we could get an opposing view too.
Jagr has never said a single bad word about his treatment by the Flames. He came to camp not ready and got injured and it snowballed. Flames worked with him to rehabilitate and it didn’t work.
This is from yesterday and it doesn’t sound like a man with a grudge. He is still injured back home.
I am not happy with GG and the players but lets not make stuff up to support a narrative.
I said nothing about him having a grudge, besides, what do you expect hm to say?
I'm referring to the way he was sent packing, regardless of what he says, he's a hall of famer and was playing just fine when given the opportunity. The fact that the Flames would rather play Hathaway or Brouwer than him is a complete joke. He wasn't the issue with this team as evident by their recored after he left. It's also evident that he still wants to play in the NHL, by his own words, so why do you think he wouldn't want to stay with the Flames?
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I said nothing about him having a grudge, besides, what do you expect hm to say?
I'm referring to the way he was sent packing, regardless of what he says, he's a hall of famer and was playing just fine when given the opportunity. The fact that the Flames would rather play Hathaway or Brouwer than him is a complete joke. He wasn't the issue with this team as evident by their recored after he left. It's also evident that he still wants to play in the NHL, by his own words, so why do you think he wouldn't want to stay with the Flames?
Because the guy can barely skate. His knees are ruined. Also his own words "I'm not able to train, I'm not able to play" "The knee does not get better"
This isn't a case of the Flames getting rid of him because he wasnt effective. The guy literally couldnt play so went to help the team he owns try and avoid relegation. It's not like the Flames thought he suckked so waived him. Even after going back to Czechia he played one shift a game just so he could be eligible for the relegation tournament.
i was never a fan of AV as i didnt like how he allowed the culture on those vancouver teams to exist. Ridiculous antics like flopping, diving, and biting etc... but he does seem to be a good coach. could think of worse guys to coach these underachievers.
i was never a fan of AV as i didnt like how he allowed the culture on those vancouver teams to exist. Ridiculous antics like flopping, diving, and biting etc... but he does seem to be a good coach. could think of worse guys to coach these underachievers.
I loath diving. And I loathed those Canuck teams for (among other d-baggery) their incessant diving.
But I also begrudgingly respect that the Canucks recognized the direction the league wanted to go, and took advantage of it. They built a strong PP and then dove like mad. It put them at the top of the standings.
I don't blame AV for that though. And if he were to become our coach, I would sure as hell hope he wouldn't try to turn us into divers.
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I loath diving. And I loathed those Canuck teams for (among other d-baggery) their incessant diving.
But I also begrudgingly respect that the Canucks recognized the direction the league wanted to go, and took advantage of it. They built a strong PP and then dove like mad. It put them at the top of the standings.
I don't blame AV for that though. And if he were to become our coach, I would sure as hell hope he wouldn't try to turn us into divers.
I mostly agree with this. I loath diving as well. About the only thing I hate more is losing. So bring in AV I say, and let him coach the team however he thinks will lead to the most wins.
for those calling for Gulutzan's head, I like your fire (pun intended) but the truth is Gulutzan is off representing the Flames in SK for the Humboldt tragedy, so timing would be a little heinous if Jim called him in the middle of that trip to can him while he's trying to support a grieving community wearing Flames colours.
for those calling for Gulutzan's head, I like your fire (pun intended) but the truth is Gulutzan is off representing the Flames in SK for the Humboldt tragedy, so timing would be a little heinous if Jim called him in the middle of that trip to can him while he's trying to support a grieving community wearing Flames colours.
Jim Treliving isn't the GM of the Flames.
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for those calling for Gulutzan's head, I like your fire (pun intended) but the truth is Gulutzan is off representing the Flames in SK for the Humboldt tragedy, so timing would be a little heinous if Jim called him in the middle of that trip to can him while he's trying to support a grieving community wearing Flames colours.
