[PGT] Jackets 5 Flames 1

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Honestly it's pretty insulting that gulu hasn't been publicly fired yet. Im starting to warm up to the idea of firing treliving too. The stink must be washed away

Its a Process.

Someone has to coach the rest of the season, it may as well be the guy being paid to do it even though he and the players have pretty clearly quit.

Then he'll get his interview with Treliving on Garbage Bag Day.

And then we find out what happens. I honestly dont think if I can take another season of Gulutzan hockey.

[Monahammer]

Gulutzens stupid face makes me so angry. It always has- that smug little smile and squinty ####ing eyes. What a damn goober

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Gulutzens stupid face makes me so angry. It always has- that smug little smile and squinty ####ing eyes. What a damn goober

Okay....I actually think he seems like a pretty nice guy. Hes just useless as a coach.

You know what they say about nice guys...

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Right now the team on the ice is the worst roster in the NHL, and worse...they know and believe it.

There likely are AHL teams who could beat this group right now.

Hopefully this demonstrates how much more building that this team needs to do, and influences Ownership and Management to stop these hasty trades where they part with so many picks to try and accelerate things right now.

Back away from the sharp objects. For the love of god, back away from the sharp objects!

Things are not that bad. They are not. The crap system is killing this team. Period. You could take the Tampa Lightning, have them play under Gulutzan, and see the exact same results. This is a team that is going have a major rebound after Gulutzan and his cadre of rodeo clowns are #### canned. The second that cabal of idiots is removed from equation is the second this team improves. I just hope that Treliving understands this and doesn't end up with another Greg Gilbert problem come to the surface. The talent is there, now find a guy that knows how to use it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

But I don't believe I've seen the "f this" we're going to do what it takes to at least be relevant.

Does the style of play allow "what it takes"? Are players encouraged to block shots with their face or to skate hard to dump-ins even though your goalie could get there first and avoid you taking a hit? Are they allowed to sacrifice an okay ook for a great look?

It's funny because people are saying the coach has lost the team but I see it the other way around. The team played its best hockey of the season when they ignored the tenets of the system that have neutered them (The games being @Pittsburgh, @Buffalo, and period 1 of @Ottawa) and then fell back into playing the sustem verbatim. I joked that the coach had lost the team in those games because they were not playing the style Gulutzan implemented, but he worked to correct things. The team is trusting the process to a fault when the process is not only handicapping their success but making it appear they they aesthetically do not care.

I think back to this core's ability to not quit when everyhing looked bleak and some games definitely come to mind. How many of the heroic things our players did in those games to display their relentless pursuit of a W are permissible in this system? Not many.

So which is the better display of character? Actively mutiny against the coach and do what it takes to win? Or trust the process and back your coach even when that continues to be a result-free endeavour? It's a lose-lose scenario. Unless they win Gully's way.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by nik-

pube bet that.

Like I said when another bet was offered I am not betting on something I want to be wrong about. All I have heard is votes of confidence in the media and I think this is BT and Conroy's hand picked guy. They are going to give him another season imo.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Like I said when another bet was offered I am not betting on something I want to be wrong about. All I have heard is votes of confidence in the media and I think this is BT and Conroy's hand picked guy. They are going to give him another season imo.

If they do, I'd rather they just come and say it April 9.

That way I don't need to bother paying attention to the off-season or next year's regular season. I'll take a hockey hiatus if Gully is back.

Also, I'd be absolutely ####ing sickened if they don't cut ties with this guy.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Like I said when another bet was offered I am not betting on something I want to be wrong about. All I have heard is votes of confidence in the media and I think this is BT and Conroy's hand picked guy. They are going to give him another season imo.

Coward!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don’t agree
I see a lot of try
Just not enough talent

I don't think last night was a good example of that. All we did was skate into the zone, take a shot from distance, rinse, repeat. It was pretty obvious the Flames weren't interested in anything but just getting this season over with.

Columbus simply boxed us out without effort, counter punched when they needed to, and otherwise just played not to suffer any injuries. It's actually a little unfair that they lost the shutout in the last minute on what might have been only our second decent offensive shift of the game.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I don't think last night was a good example of that. All we did was skate into the zone, take a shot from distance, rinse, repeat. It was pretty obvious the Flames weren't interested in anything but just getting this season over with.

Columbus simply boxed us out without effort, counter punched when they needed to, and otherwise just played not to suffer any injuries. It's actually a little unfair that they lost the shutout in the last minute on what might have been only our second decent offensive shift of the game.

There literally isn't a single statistic that supports that.

You can look at scoring chance totals, high danger splits ... the heat map shows the Flames taking shots from the low to high slot all night while the Jackets barely got near Gillies.

I just don't get this narrative, it never goes away./

The Flames haven't been a finishing team all season, and its exasperated when you take most of their talented players out of the game.

But to say they were boxed out, shot from a distance and didn't try is a huge stretch.

There's enough to be depressed about without adding horror fiction to the discussion.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just don't get this narrative, it never goes away./

Because I watched the game, Bingo, not just the spreadsheet.

In fact, I was specifically watching for home plate area shots and how they developed. And guess what? Nearly every single one was blocked, missed the net, or shot into a goalie that was unscreened and unmolested. In fact, my personal count after two periods last night had only two shots that I would have rated as a difficult save. Maybe just five or six that ranked above routine.

You know all about score effects man. When the Jackets got up 2-0, all they cared about was keeping lanes clear for Bobrovsky. And we did very little to make that chore difficult.

We had about two sustained offensive flurries. One that lasted nearly a minute, generated a bunch of Corsis but few shots on goal, and ended when Brouwer passed the puck all the way back to our zone. The other was the end-game power play that we scored on.

Other than that, the Flames weren't a threat.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because I watched the game, Bingo, not just the spreadsheet.

In fact, I was specifically watching for home plate area shots and how they developed. And guess what? Nearly every single one was blocked, missed the net, or shot into a goalie that was unscreened and unmolested. In fact, my personal count after two periods last night had only two shots that I would have rated as a difficult save. Maybe just five or six that ranked above routine.

You know all about score effects man. When the Jackets got up 2-0, all they cared about was keeping lanes clear for Bobrovsky. And we did very little to make that chore difficult.

We had about two sustained offensive flurries. One that lasted nearly a minute, generated a bunch of Corsis but few shots on goal, and ended when Brouwer passed the puck all the way back to our zone. The other was the end-game power play that we scored on.

Other than that, the Flames weren't a threat.

OK ...

My bad, I just watched the stats sheet and hammered F5 all night.

Thanks for the summary of what really happened.

Can you provide those on a daily basis? Since what you see seems to be so far out side what independent and objective counters are seeing they are very valuable.

Did you got to some sort of school to learn this skill or did it develop naturally?

[Mr.Coffee]

What goes around comes around. If your a fatalistic kinda person, this terrible play that we are enduring means hopefully much brighter days in the future.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

There literally isn't a single statistic that supports that.

You can look at scoring chance totals, high danger splits ... the heat map shows the Flames taking shots from the low to high slot all night while the Jackets barely got near Gillies.

I just don't get this narrative, it never goes away./

The Flames haven't been a finishing team all season, and its exasperated when you take most of their talented players out of the game.

But to say they were boxed out, shot from a distance and didn't try is a huge stretch.

There's enough to be depressed about without adding horror fiction to the discussion.

I admire your persistence with the shot counting

You know darn well that your shot counting models don’t distinguish the pressured shots by Cgy from the cross ice one timers that CBJ scores on.

A few games back the stats were that the Flames outshot their opponent 400-275 in 10 games. They were 3-6-1 in that time and outscored by 16 goals.

Based on that you could develop a model that predicts that the Flames will outshoot their opponent 40-28 and lose 4-2.

Guess what they did last night? +/- 2 on the shots and +/- 1 on goals on each side.

That is a stupid simple model that looks to work better than Corsi for the Flames

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Toonage

There are still a lot of good players out there. Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Gio, Dougie, Ferland.

What I am seeing are a bunch of good soldiers executing the same old game plan. Check out the shots on net. High. Again. All the boxes checked. Lots of looks no luck etc.

Almost like its the same no matter who GG throws out there. Only difference being our truly elite players aren't there to make magic out of this ####.

Not good players IMO...Ferland and Bennett can only score when 13 gives them an open net to shoot at

Frolik is a 3rd or 4th liner

Gio and Dougie are good players...hard for a dman to put up any offence with terrible forwards

Backlund is more of a defensive center

Roster is terrible right now...is it really shocking they can't score?

[Toonage]

Bennett scored most if his goals with Backlund & Frolik.
Ferland scores most of his from the right side off the rush. Johnny may have fed him but they werent a bunch of empty nets.

Point being however that when you take the elite talent off the ice the GG system really shows its warts

[Resolute 14]

Or just become hyperdefensive, that's fine too, Bingo.

But keep one thing in mind. While Corsi and "high danger" scoring chances are objective counters (insofar as they can be given a human somewhere determines whether or not it was a shot attempt in the first place), they are simply objective counters that measure shot location. They don't actually measure shot quality.

When we call CF% a measure of possession and HDSC a measure of quality, we're extrapolating. And that is inherently subjective.

So when push comes to shove, we're both seeing the same stats, and we're both asking why the results aren't there.

You've concluded it is mostly it bad luck, perhaps with some LOFT thrown in. My observations are that it is a bad system (and right now in particular, a whole bunch of LOFT and a give-a-crap meter running on empty). But IMO, the reason we are so high on missed and blocked shot charts is because systemically, our goal is to cautiously gain the zone and pepper the net. Other teams recognize this and give us exactly what we want - a bunch of quantity - while focused on shutting down the quality.

Disagree with me if you like, but your conclusions are no more objective than mine.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Back away from the sharp objects. For the love of god, back away from the sharp objects!

Things are not that bad. They are not. The crap system is killing this team. Period. You could take the Tampa Lightning, have them play under Gulutzan, and see the exact same results. This is a team that is going have a major rebound after Gulutzan and his cadre of rodeo clowns are #### canned. The second that cabal of idiots is removed from equation is the second this team improves. I just hope that Treliving understands this and doesn't end up with another Greg Gilbert problem come to the surface. The talent is there, now find a guy that knows how to use it.

Pube bet that. I'm not sure of it the way you are.

[browna]

Things have been done in the standings since the Sharks game two weeks ago, so overall, everything in this last 2 weeks is showing who and what we have. Gio out there battling. JG out there trying to make something out of nothing but having no help.

Troubling to me is our supposed top line winger and 2/3 of our second line all year, have 7 goals in the last combined 90 games. Not just this past two weeks but in crunch time where they are really needed.

However in these past two weeks, those 3 players have shown very very little that makes me think they’re being held back, and if anything, are higher up in the lineup then they should be.

Don’t expect them to bust out and start scoring goals and dangling around everyone, and its hard to get past the noise and the effect thet being out and quitting on the coach has done, but those guys have shown no spark, no fire, nothing in any of these games that makes you think these guys are worthy of being a 2nd line or better forward....and that they are very very complimentary-type players...when again, they make up half of the top 2 lines....and we just signed one for them for 6 more years at $6m.

I’d just expect to see that those guys are clearly cut above, in some way shape or form, the very average bottom 6, but they are fitting right in.

SM and MT going down (and the three guys have struggled long before those two injuries) have exposed these guys as more followers then leaders, and that’s a problem if you want to have to two solid scoring lines.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Bennett scored most if his goals with Backlund & Frolik.
Ferland scores most of his from the right side off the rush. Johnny may have fed him but they werent a bunch of empty nets.

Point being however that when you take the elite talent off the ice the GG system really shows its warts

Empty nets may be an exaggeration

Ferland scoring 21 goals is 95% Jhonny
Bennett looks like a bum when not on the top line THIS SEASON

Both look useless with the top players out of the lineup...its not all on the coach