Francis: Tire Fire

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by wired

If you guys read the posts in here, there are so many homers on CP. You really think the Flames top line is truly top calibre?
Ferland is a 2nd/3rd line player, Monahan is decent as a top line center, but on most teams is #2.
Johnny, while he can score and make plays, has the heart of the puck he is trying to shoot in the net.
Flame me all you want, I would truly love to see Johnny dealt for a few #1 picks. He wont resign here, and we wont win under his current contract with the roster we have.
And I think the coaching staff shakeup should have happened just after the bye week, or around there.
Wouldn't be surprised to see both Mony and Johnny dealt in the off season.

I have no idea what you have against Gaudreau, but I don't think you have any idea how to build a winning hockey club. Maybe you're actually an Oiler fan and are use to last place finishes or something. But taking away the team's unquestionable MVP who's on pace for 90 points, is not a strategy to win more games.

In fact, take Gaudreau off this team and we would be the lowest scoring team in the league no contest. We'd be right there with Arizona and Buffalo as the worst teams in the entire league.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Obviously I like Johnny, he's one of the key pieces moving forward and was definitely not one of the reasons we had a disappointing year.

He loves to score and get points, but I don't think he hates to lose. Part of that is on ice, part of that is off ice where I've seen him out dtown a lot when he really shouldn't be. I think he's the kind of player that could get three points in a loss and feel really good about the game. That's not really an indictment on the guy, not everyone is a "hate to lose guy". You can still have really important players that aren't that person. But Gaudreau just isn't, same with Monahan.

Smith Gio and Tkachuk are those guys for us.

How does anyone here really know how much someone actually hates to lose. Total speculation. Also, if Smith hated to lose so much, then why is he 1-5 since coming back from an injury with a 3.79 GAA and a .861 save%? Hating to lose doesn't automatically mean you have what it takes to win in the most crucial times.

He wasn't good enough since coming back from injury and he hasn't been good enough since the mandated 5 day break. Wherever Mike Smith went on vacation, he left his game there too.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How does anyone here really know how much someone actually hates to lose. Total speculation. Also, if Smith hated to lose so much, then why is he 1-5 since coming back from an injury with a 3.79 GAA and a .861 save%? Hating to lose doesn't automatically mean you have what it takes to win in the most crucial times.

He wasn't good enough since coming back from injury and he hasn't been good enough since the mandated 5 day break. Wherever Mike Smith went on vacation, he left his game there too.

By what they are willing, or not willing, to do when they play?

[Igottago]

Where does this whole Johnny doesn't hate to lose nonsense come from? He has visibly shown emotion numerous times when scoring important goals or been frustrated by something. Its not like he's floating around out on the ice. Also, the guy who drives the entire offensive engine of the team is by definition doing everything he can to help the team win. Sometimes he probably tries to do too much.

[Resolute 14]

Because Johnny isn't crashing and banging guys in the corners, probably.

[DiracSpike]

And how they act off ice after losses and in other circumstances.

I'm not trying to slander JG because I really like the guy as a hockey player and as a person having met him but he doesn't strike me as someone that hates to lose. It's a rare trait, again, not a lot of people have that aspect to their personality so it's not a chirp on him.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by transplant99

By what they are willing, or not willing, to do when they play?

So, using the example I provided. Where does Mike Smith slot into? I think it's pretty obvious how much Mike Smith hates to lose, it's very visible. But his game has been atrocious since the 5 day mandated holiday. So clearly, hating to lose hasn't exactly elevated Mike Smith's game in the most critical of times.

I'm just not sold on the idea that hating to lose is the primary ingredient to turn this team around. It's a nice character trait to have, but it doesn't guarantee success. It's not like the Stanley Cup is awarded to the team that hates to lose the most every year.

[dino7c]

I HATE when the Flames lose... should they put me out on the ice.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

And how they act off ice after losses and in other circumstances.

I'm not trying to slander JG because I really like the guy as a hockey player and as a person having met him but he doesn't strike me as someone that hates to lose. It's a rare trait, again, not a lot of people have that aspect to their personality so it's not a chirp on him.

LOL.

So if you see a guy at a restaurant after a game you expect him to be fuming and yelling F bombs into his steak sandwich or something?

What does this even mean?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

And how they act off ice after losses and in other circumstances.

I'm not trying to slander JG because I really like the guy as a hockey player and as a person having met him but he doesn't strike me as someone that hates to lose. It's a rare trait, again, not a lot of people have that aspect to their personality so it's not a chirp on him.

I honestly don't care one bit if he hates to lose or not because here's the actual facts of the matter. He has 82 points so far up to date, that's 82 goals right there to help his team win games. He's also figured in offensively on 30 of this team's 35 wins. If he doesn't find a way to put up points, this team basically cannot win when there's that kind of reliance on one player.

Whether this is considered hating to lose or not, he has helped this team win more games than any other player on this team. If every fan here wants more wins from this team, then the answer is that we need more Johnny Gaudreau's, not less.

Sadly though, we only have one. But we have plenty of other disappointments who have contributed to a lot of losses this season. Those are the guys we need to rid this team of regardless of how much they hate to lose.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I honestly don't care one bit if he hates to lose or not because here's the actual facts of the matter. He has 82 points so far up to date, that's 82 goals right there to help his team win games. He's also figured in offensively on 30 of this team's 35 wins. If he doesn't find a way to put up points, this team basically cannot win when there's that kind of reliance on one player.

Whether this is considered hating to lose or not, he has helped this team win more games than any other player on this team. If every fan here wants more wins from this team, then the answer is that we need more Johnny Gaudreau's, not less.

Sadly though, we only have one. But we have plenty of other disappointments who have contributed to a lot of losses this season. Those are the guys we need to rid this team of regardless of how much they hate to lose.

That's fine if it's something you don't care about, I'd never suggest that it's the be all end all that everyone has to have. JG is this team's MVP and best player, and we could definitely use some clones of him to sprinkle through all four lines. I'm not debating that at all, I'm not syaing this team would be better off without him becuase we wouldn't.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by colbym72

I dont care if Ghandi is your frickin captain. If you dont have a good enough team, your leadership can only do so much

Found the guy who hasn't watched The Mighty Ducks

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because Johnny isn't crashing and banging guys in the corners, probably.

Any player, regardless of size or skill, can forecheck and backcheck hard. If they want to. If they've come to understand it's as important to winning as putting the puck in the net. It has nothing to do with grittiness or hitting. Just look at all the times an international Finnish or Swedish team has beaten a bigger, more talented Canadian team because they have total buy-in.

If a guy like Henrik Zetterberg can play a committed, two-way game, so can Gaudreau and Monahan.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Any player, not matter the size or skill, can forecheck and backcheck hard. If they want to. If they've come to understand it's as important to winning as putting the puck in the net. It has nothing to do with grittiness or hitting. Just look at all the times an international Finnish or Swedish team beats a bigger, more talented Canadian team because they have total buy-in.

If a guy like Henrik Zetterberg can play a committed, two-way game, so can Gaudreau and Monahan.

What you're after is an ideology. Sure, everyone in this league would love it if their star players were also excellent 2 way players, but that's almost never the case because they're extremely rare to find. It's not uncommon to find players who are great offensively to be a little more lackadaisical on the defensive end; but that doesn't mean they can't help you win.

Look at how much flack Phil Kessel and Justin Schultz took for being 1 dimensional players. Now they're 2 time Stanley Cup winners who were vital to Pittsburgh's playoff runs. Patrick Kane isn't a defensive dynamo either and he's got 3 Stanley Cups and a Hart Trophy to boot.

I think we can win a Cup with a Gaudreau. But if a team keys in on your top guys and does everything they can to shut them down, then who else is left to carry the load? There just aren't enough difference makers on this team who can score a key goal when we're down in the 3rd.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What you're after is an ideology. Sure, everyone in this league would love it if their star players were also excellent 2 way players, but that's almost never the case because they're extremely rare to find.

They may be hard to find, but it's almost impossible to win a Cup without them. Crosby/Kunitz/Letang. Toews/Hossa/Keith. Kopitar/Carter/Doughty. Bergeron/Marchand/Chara.

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Look at how much flack Phil Kessel and Justin Schultz took for being 1 dimensional players. Now they're 2 time Stanley Cup winners who were vital to Pittsburgh's playoff runs. Patrick Kane isn't a defensive dynamo either and he's got 3 Stanley Cups and a Hart Trophy to boot.

I think we can win a Cup with a Gaudreau.

I think we can too. And I think a contending team can afford to have a player or two in its core who's one-dimensional. But they can't have three of four.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im somewhat amazed at the amount of people that think everything will be resolved with only a coaching change.

You have been a proponent of the coach so it's no surprise you haven't changed your stance. It's been painfully obvious for a long time that this team has been coached poorly and I for one believe a new quality coaching staff will do wonders for this team. There's a lot of parity in this league and a staff of coaches that can't figure out special teams or put players in place to succeed is more than enough to sink a good team.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by shutout

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...ame-tire-fire/

• Season has become a tire fire
• Smith injury beginning of the end
• not just goaltending
• major character issues
• leadership issues
• coaching issues
• goaltending masking the problems on the team
• Not a shot at Giordano and Hamonic
• Team just disappeared
• Sense of urgency and leadership
• Lack of leadership and buy-in from the young guys
• Young guys just want to get their points but don't hate to lose
• Defensive lapses - guys not playing the game at both ends
• Gaudreau and Monahan not the guys to lead the team, not guys that will do anything and everything to win
• Tkachuk the next leader and captain
• Lack of pure leaders on the team

Eric Francis may well be enjoying his highest level of support from CP-ers ever on the basis of these opinions.

Colour me shocked that Francis echoing pretty much all of the concerns voiced on this Board over the past 1 - 2 - 3 months, makes many feel that he's now a 'great writer' with a 'ton of insight'.

I say BS. I wouldn't be shocked if Francis formulated his 'insight' after mining CP for a few days.

Francis is supposed to be an 'insider'. If it takes him 75 games of the season for him to identify the same problems that CP-ers identified 2 or 3 months earlier, I don't think he can claim to be much of an insider.

As others have noted, Francis has been carrying the teams water much of the season. If he was REALLY an insider, why wait to game 75 to publish his insider opinion? Publish the same opinion piece 1 or 2 or 3 months ago and I might be impressed. These problems didn't just arise the past month. Why, if he really knew anything, would Francis wait until now to drop his bomb?

Eric Francis is no good, even when he writes a populist opinion.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im somewhat amazed at the amount of people that think everything will be resolved with only a coaching change.


Maybe I'm the one out to lunch on this, but there are deep deep rooted problems in this organization that go way beyond how to attack a 1-3-1 defense or where to try and be on the PP.

I dont think anyone is "blaming" Gaudreau for the clubs place in the world exclusively, but he certainly isnt above criticism for his 200 ft game especially when it comes to turning the puck over in the worst spots one the ice to do so.

Same with others.

Hamilton is another one...needs to be much better in his own end at times. Monahan is a soft player, so he too needs to get better. Doesn't mean they all aren't already good players because they are, but they are also far from complete players and having the "hate losing" mentality.

The club as a whole needs an attitude adjustment IMO. That won't come from just a coaching change. It needs to come from within. A "take no prisoners" approach that can really only come from the guys on the ice and a leadership group that instills it in everyone who starts to wander from that kind of thought process. Matthew Tkachuk is that guy, but he is still too young to be the leader of the rest.

Said it all season...this is a very soft team, particularly mentally. That's on the guys who aren't paying the price to win, and on no one else. The guys willing to do this already is a very very short one.

In what must surely signal a coming apocalypse, I agree with Transplant 100%.

This is a soft team, particularly mentally.

[wired]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Pretty funny that you using "we" when you're an oilers fan.

That's pretty low. Just because I moved to Edmonton for work does not make me a greaser fan.
Lived in Calgary for over 20 years before the work dried up.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by wired

That's pretty low. Just because I moved to Edmonton for work does not make me a greaser fan.
Lived in Calgary for over 20 years before the work dried up.

Its your troll like posts that make you sound like an Oilers fan

Trade JG for a couple firsts lol

get lost