Elite all around players that lead their teams by playing at both ends and do everything they can to win on and off the ice.
Tell me does Calgary REALLY have that? And if not, isn't a problem?
Well we don't have Crosby, but for all the other guys, are they really that different other than some seasoning and great coaching? Monahan is one of the best players from his draft class, Gaudreau is an offensive engine amongst the league leaders, we've got a solid D core with Gio leading the way. Tkchuck is only going to get better. Hopefully Bennett can turn things around, if not he's a piece that can be moved. Backlund and Frolik are solid and dependable. The Flames are a good team with holes on the 3rd/4th lines, but I would say I'm pretty happy with that core.
Actually I would say this is the most promising core the Flames have had since the early 1990's, it has more potential than the D. Sutter era Flames who were pretty good, but never had centre depth.
Should the Flames tank a few seasons and get a Crosby like draft pick? Has it worked for Edmonton or the Islanders?
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A few weeks after crashing head-first into the boards (denting his helmet and being unable to move for a little while) following a hit from behind by Bob Errey, the Calgary Flames player explains:
"I was like Christ, lying on my back, with my arms outstretched, crucified"
-- Frank Musil - Early January 1994
Last edited by Igottago; 03-23-2018 at 09:50 AM.
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His much of a liability is the top line? I’d be interested in some stats for if they outscore their competition, and what their QoC is like. Are they really that bad?
And Backlund isn’t just a defensive guy, he is definitely a 2 way guy. Yes it would be great if he can get pushed down to the third line, but he isn’t just a defensive guy.
This is always the balancing act when assessing a struggling team....are all the players junk just because the team is bad? And as soon as the team starts to put it together and they see some success, suddenly we have some great players slotted well. It’s easy to do a baby toss with the bath water thing.
Ultimately I’d still like to see a coach bring some more accountability to all players, and preach an aggressive mindset both offensively and defensively, as opposed to a passive mindset at both ends of the rink.
Since when is the top line bad?
The problem with the Flames is lines 3 and 4 are among (if not the worst) in the league and Gulutzan deployed them more than any team in the league.
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If you guys read the posts in here, there are so many homers on CP. You really think the Flames top line is truly top calibre?
Ferland is a 2nd/3rd line player, Monahan is decent as a top line center, but on most teams is #2.
Johnny, while he can score and make plays, has the heart of the puck he is trying to shoot in the net.
Flame me all you want, I would truly love to see Johnny dealt for a few #1 picks. He wont resign here, and we wont win under his current contract with the roster we have.
And I think the coaching staff shakeup should have happened just after the bye week, or around there.
Wouldn't be surprised to see both Mony and Johnny dealt in the off season.
The Francis hate on this site now is just hate for the sake of hate. We’ve all had our moments and at some point you have to give someone the benefit of the doubt and a chance at redemption. In the past he was a bit of a nozzle, however he at least has the balls to call this team out for what they are.
There is zero to disagree with in the interview, he hit the nail on the head. What would you rather have, the super awesome Oilers Glee Club and Politburo up north, or a media that actually critiques the team fairly?
10 years ago, I couldn’t stand Francis. However in the past few years, he has grown on me, and he is definitely maturing in his writing and commentary. For me the turn seemed to start when the ‘I like Cake’ era of Francis ended, and he focused on hockey.
Anyway, let’s not just hate because it’s the cool, edgy, CP stance to take.
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Elite all around players that lead their teams by playing at both ends and do everything they can to win on and off the ice.
Tell me does Calgary REALLY have that? And if not, isn't a problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
Your point might be better made if you wren't relying on gross simplification, Jiri.
By all means, please continue listing those rosters beyond two players. Because if that's all it takes, you've already given Gio and Tkachuk as the right kind of guys.
Classic flames fan exchange right here.
"well we have a good defender and a player with gumption! Obviously on Par with Kopitar/Doughty, Toews/Keith, Crosby, Bergeron/Chara!"
I mean, just amazing. One guy makes a comparison to the best CENTRE/Defender skill/defense combo and someone comes along to pick a fight with him that Defender/Wing combo is on par.
Classic, CLASSIC, lowered expectations after years of futility.
The Flames haven't had a combo like what Jiri is talking about since MacInnis/Nieuwendyk.
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Johnny, while he can score and make plays, has the heart of the puck he is trying to shoot in the net.
Flame me all you want, I would truly love to see Johnny dealt for a few #1 picks. He wont resign here, and we wont win under his current contract with the roster we have.
And I think the coaching staff shakeup should have happened just after the bye week, or around there.
lol this is absolutely ridiculous. If only Gaudreau had the heart of Troy Brouwer.
And what do you mean he won't re-sign here? He's here for the next four seasons beyond this one. Why even worry about that now?
The problem with the Flames is lines 3 and 4 are among (if not the worst) in the league and Gulutzan deployed them more than any team in the league.
That's actually wrong. I only checked 7 of the western teams but under GG the top 6 forwards actually get more play time than any of those teams and the bottom 6 get less ice-time than any of them. (5v5 and all situations)
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@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
Last edited by belsarius; 03-23-2018 at 10:06 AM.
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Good grief, the Flames do not need a retool, and are not in dire shape.
The problem the past 2 years have been large and part the coaching. Brodie has been bad yes, but a lot of the issues stem from what coaching has done to him. Watch what he did the years under Hartley, even in 2015-16 and you see a completely different Brodie.
What do you notice? Brodie shooting on the powerplay, Brodie transition passes to center, Brodie leading a rush from the back of the net, Brodie activated on offense. Brodie even has breakaways as a Defenseman (see 5:50). Almost all of his passes are on the backhand as well.
How often under Gulutzan has he done any of that? The players are being told to move as a stupid 5 man system that only works on paper without the other side adapting, and Brodie is playing on his wrong side because of a stubborn left / right D hockey school mentality. Defense is told to stay back and wait to move as a 5 man unit. When Brodie's feet are not moving, he gets caught. Because Corsi is all that Gulutzan seems to care about, it looks pretty stats wise.
There is clearly a confidence issue in Brodie right now (he's afraid to shoot on the PP), and a large part of that is what Gulutzan has brought to the team. Trading him without a chance to redeem himself under a proper coach will be a worse trade than Justin Schultz traded for a bag of pucks for being bad under Eakins. The last place Avalanche from last year are in a playoffs spot this year, and that's while losing Duchene for mostly picks.
Last edited by Firebot; 03-23-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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His much of a liability is the top line? I’d be interested in some stats for if they outscore their competition, and what their QoC is like. Are they really that bad?
5 on 5, Matt Stajan is unbelievably our best performer with a GF% of 60.00. (Jagr was 66.67, but no longer on the roster). Second is Monahan at 56.31. Third is Ferland at 56.10 and fourth is Gaudreau at 55.96. Among forwards with more than 100 minutes, Backlund is the worst at 40.74 and then Frolik at 41.18. That is a *dramatic* drop from last year for those two.
Using the comparables Jiri mentioned. Crosby is 45.65. (Malkin 53.06). Kopitar is 57.58 (Brown over 64). The Bruins are absolutely ridiculous. They have six forwards with significant playing time over 60. Bergeron is over 70. Toews is at 51.14. Kane is at 45.16. Obviously that's this year though, not when they were good. Not having a goaltender really hurt the Hawks this season.
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A player like Gaudreau is amazing to have on your team, clearly, but a player like Gaudreau should never be "the man" on your team. Kane was never the man in Chicago and, as tired as the comparison is, that's really what Gaudreau should be. A star winger needs to be a sidekick. Of all teams, the Flames should know this.
This is far too dismissive of Kane IMO. He has been just as much the man as Toews and Keith as they have all taken their turns. Kane's the guy that has scored a lot of the clutch goals in the playoffs leading to their cups. He's outscored Toews and Keith in the playoffs and I don't think the Hawks win a cup without him.
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lol this is absolutely ridiculous. If only Gaudreau had the heart of Troy Brouwer.
And what do you mean he won't re-sign here? He's here for the next four seasons beyond this one. Why even worry about that now?
This is my opinion, I have watched a lot of games over the last 2 years, and have been so upset when Johnny just quits on plays.
To me, it seems there is some underlying problem with most of the team, they just seem to quit when adversity hits.
And, if I was a boss at a company, and one of my best employees was not happy working for me, I would try to find a way to fix the situation. One way or another.
Lets see what happens in the next little while, bet a few fans will be surprised.
Good grief, the Flames do not need a retool, and are not in dire shape.
The problem the past 2 years have been large and part the coaching. Brodie has been bad yes, but a lot of the issues stem from what coaching has done to him. Watch what he did the years under Hartley, even in 2015-16 and you see a completely different Brodie.
What do you notice? Brodie shooting on the powerplay, Brodie transition passes to center, Brodie leading a rush from the back of the net, Brodie activated on offense.
How often under Gulutzan has he done any of that? The players are being told to move as a stupid 5 man system that only works on paper without the other side adapting. Defense is told to stay back and wait to move as a 5 man unit. When Brodie's feet are not moving, he gets caught. Because Corsi is all that Gulutzan seems to care about, it looks pretty stats wise.
There is clearly a confidence issue in Brodie right now (he's afraid to shoot on the PP), and a large part of that is what Gulutzan has brought to the team. Trading him without a chance to redeem himself under a proper coach will be a worse trade than Justin Schultz traded for a bag of pucks for being bad under Eakins.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Im somewhat amazed at the amount of people that think everything will be resolved with only a coaching change.
Maybe I'm the one out to lunch on this, but there are deep deep rooted problems in this organization that go way beyond how to attack a 1-3-1 defense or where to try and be on the PP.
I dont think anyone is "blaming" Gaudreau for the clubs place in the world exclusively, but he certainly isnt above criticism for his 200 ft game especially when it comes to turning the puck over in the worst spots one the ice to do so.
Same with others.
Hamilton is another one...needs to be much better in his own end at times. Monahan is a soft player, so he too needs to get better. Doesn't mean they all aren't already good players because they are, but they are also far from complete players and having the "hate losing" mentality.
The club as a whole needs an attitude adjustment IMO. That won't come from just a coaching change. It needs to come from within. A "take no prisoners" approach that can really only come from the guys on the ice and a leadership group that instills it in everyone who starts to wander from that kind of thought process. Matthew Tkachuk is that guy, but he is still too young to be the leader of the rest.
Said it all season...this is a very soft team, particularly mentally. That's on the guys who aren't paying the price to win, and on no one else. The guys willing to do this already is a very very short one.
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This is my opinion, I have watched a lot of games over the last 2 years, and have been so upset when Johnny just quits on plays.
To me, it seems there is some underlying problem with most of the team, they just seem to quit when adversity hits.
And, if I was a boss at a company, and one of my best employees was not happy working for me, I would try to find a way to fix the situation. One way or another.
Lets see what happens in the next little while, bet a few fans will be surprised.
Hockey is a team sport and you expect the problem to be fixed by one player?
Only McDavid contributes to his team's offence more than Gaudreau. Gaudreau is doing as much as he can to help this team win at an extremely favourable cap hit. Few players in this league do as much with as little as he does, yet fans want to sacrifice him?
So odd.
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If you guys read the posts in here, there are so many homers on CP. You really think the Flames top line is truly top calibre?
Ferland is a 2nd/3rd line player, Monahan is decent as a top line center, but on most teams is #2.
Johnny, while he can score and make plays, has the heart of the puck he is trying to shoot in the net.
Flame me all you want, I would truly love to see Johnny dealt for a few #1 picks. He wont resign here, and we wont win under his current contract with the roster we have.
And I think the coaching staff shakeup should have happened just after the bye week, or around there.
Wouldn't be surprised to see both Mony and Johnny dealt in the off season.
Pretty funny that you using "we" when you're an oilers fan.
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Obviously I like Johnny, he's one of the key pieces moving forward and was definitely not one of the reasons we had a disappointing year.
He loves to score and get points, but I don't think he hates to lose. Part of that is on ice, part of that is off ice where I've seen him out dtown a lot when he really shouldn't be. I think he's the kind of player that could get three points in a loss and feel really good about the game. That's not really an indictment on the guy, not everyone is a "hate to lose guy". You can still have really important players that aren't that person. But Gaudreau just isn't, same with Monahan.
