The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Flames do have the talent. It's just not being deployed properly. Ferland and frolik should be bumped down to the third line and Bennett and tkachuk should both move up a line and idk put someone else on the second line wing.

Skill isn't this teams issue. It's the rigid system that doesn't allow them to play

If this post doesnn't say it all.

you can't even come up with a name of a player who would be decent on the second line after basically getting rid of lines 2 and 3.

This team is terrible up front. But they're paying Michael Stone 3.6 million to play 12 minutes per game 5-5. Hamonic at 3.8 is playing 18 minutes a night 5-5.

There are massive, massive holes in the lineup.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If this post doesnn't say it all.

you can't even come up with a name of a player who would be decent on the second line after basically getting rid of lines 2 and 3.

This team is terrible up front. But they're paying Michael Stone 3.6 million to play 12 minutes per game 5-5. Hamonic at 3.8 is playing 18 minutes a night 5-5.

There are massive, massive holes in the lineup.

There is also a massive, massive hole on the bench.

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk

[saXon]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

It is pretty funny in a way. But I mean why not convert Bennett to RW? He's absolutely skilled enough for it. But there's no way this coaching staff is willing to try something that crazy

It could be a stop gap, but that's the irony of it all. Flames management throughout the years tend to fail to fix the problem at hand and find a natural for the role. It's always a stop gap measure.

One problem is fixed just as another is created.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

The fundumental problems with GG and his coaching staff are:

(c) The system doesn't put enough pressure on the other team - too many d-to-d passes. Defensive system too passive. Defence don't activate enough. Not enough quick transitions.

This whole 50/50 hockey thing is not working for them. They don't put any pressure on a play unless they can get to the puck first by a country mile. If it's going to be a normal hockey battle, they back off and watch the other teams move the puck around like the Harlem Globetrotters.

[kukkudo]

I can already see it 2018-2019 season Flames hire (Elite Coach) they bring in a top 6 RW and cruise into the playoffs no problem. GG fans will say oh he never had a top 6 RW to work with etc.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Flames do have the talent. It's just not being deployed properly. Ferland and frolik should be bumped down to the third line and Bennett and tkachuk should both move up a line and idk put someone else on the second line wing.

Skill isn't this teams issue. It's the rigid system that doesn't allow them to play

I think it's both a mixture of coaching and players.

As for your post our entire bottom 6 either should be out of NHL or in Ahl. This includes Bennett. Janko should be sent down, Bennett is playing like a passenger on a 3rd line not leading the 3rd line. Stajan, Brouwer , Hathaway, Lomberg should not be in NHL. Lazar is good enough for 13th forward.

Frolik and Ferland should be in bottom 6. Problem is there is no one to take their place.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

KA-BOOM!

This Just In! THE LAS VEGAS GOLDEN KNIGHTS ARE A BETTER TEAM THAN THE FLAMES!

4 forwards over 50 points compared to Calgary's 2. 2 players over a point per game to Calgary's 1.

Ferland's 20 goals would be good enough to tie for 5th on their roster in goals (with Reilly smith, who has 53 points compared to Ferland's 34...)

To believe the Flames would be producing more offense than Las Vegas is to believe that with a different coach, Backlund would be over a point per game over the course of 60 games. So they got depth as well. To believe the Flames would be producing more offense with a different coach is to believe that Michael Frolik, who has never scored 20, would somehow have 21 goals through 60 games.

I don't know how people can watch games like that or the one against Tampa or against Boston or against the Leafs and say "yeah, we can hang with these guys". The Flames don't have close to that kind of depth, not even close.

Dougie with 36 points is the 4th highest scorer on the roster.

Colin Miller, with 33 points, is Las Vegas' SEVENTH highest scorer. AND THEY HAVE TWO DEFENDERS WITH 30 POINTS.

The Flames do not have enough talent up front to be competitive, and they have way too much salary on defense to be able to address it in a significant way.

That Vegas team is paying Clarkson and Grabovski 10 million dollars not to play for them.

The Flames are paying Stajan and Brouwer close to the same to be active roster players.

This is where I just absolutely shake my head at some posters who continually whine about the coach. The Flames are a salary imbalanced roster without nearly enough scoring punch up front, and they've been like this for two calendar years now.

This team is a pretender, not a contender, and GG is low on the list of problems facing the organization right now.

Vegas has players with more points because Vegas plays a system that get there players great scoring opportunities. You gotta score off the rush in this league since with how sound defensive structures are these days, giving up a 5 on 5 goal where the team was in zone for a while shouldn't happen that frequently.

I'll give you that Vegas has depth, but Flames roster has 6 players that have produced +20 goal seasons, and a defensive crop that offensively should be one of the best. The reason the Flames goal production is low because the system stunts it. The 3rd and 4th line should be getting goals off the rush or creating chaos at the front of the net within entering the zone. The system isn't enabling that.

[bubbsy]

oops

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

KA-BOOM!

This Just In! THE LAS VEGAS GOLDEN KNIGHTS ARE A BETTER TEAM THAN THE FLAMES!

4 forwards over 50 points compared to Calgary's 2. 2 players over a point per game to Calgary's 1.

Ferland's 20 goals would be good enough to tie for 5th on their roster in goals (with Reilly smith, who has 53 points compared to Ferland's 34...)

To believe the Flames would be producing more offense than Las Vegas is to believe that with a different coach, Backlund would be over a point per game over the course of 60 games. To believe the Flames would be producing more offense with a different coach is to believe that Michael Frolik, who has never scored 20, would somehow have 21 goals through 60 games.

I don't know how people can watch games like that or the one against Tampa or against Boston or against the Leafs and say "yeah, we can hang with these guys". The Flames don't have close to that kind of depth, not even close.

Dougie with 36 points is the 4th highest scorer on the roster.

Colin Miller, with 33 points, is Las Vegas' SEVENTH highest scorer. AND THEY HAVE TWO DEFENDERS WITH 30 POINTS.

The Flames do not have enough talent up front to be competitive, and they have way too much salary on defense to be able to address it in a significant way.

That Vegas team is paying Clarkson and Grabovski 10 million dollars not to play for them.

The Flames are paying Stajan and Brouwer close to the same to be active roster players.

This is where I just absolutely shake my head at some posters who continually whine about the coach. The Flames are a salary imbalanced roster without nearly enough scoring punch up front, and they've been like this for two calendar years now.

This team is a pretender, not a contender, and GG is low on the list of problems facing the organization right now.

I've read it all now.

Yes, everyone and their monkey saw that Vegas was a much more talented squad than the Flames at the start of the season!! How on earth did I forget this?

Come on. Don't you remember how many depth guys on the Flames had career years under Hartley? Joe Colborne scored 20 goals. Flames had some pretty high scoring defencemen then.

Systems play a TONNE into point production. The reason you change up systems is to give your team the best chance to win most nights based on the roster and philosophy you want to play. Flames took a decided turn when they let go of Hartley and hired Gulutzan to focus more on the defensive side of the game. That usually means that you sacrifice some offence.

Vegas is playing a very up-tempo game that is designed around speed, hard on the forecheck, aggressive defence and especially around the fast transition. Look at how the break out. Look at how they force turnovers, or force the other team to move the puck faster and not give them any time and space. As soon as they get the puck, they look for a stretch pass, and if it isn't there, they skate up the ice as fast as they can.

It is not about them being the vastly superior hockey club on paper. It is about them being a well coached team that has the right system in place to make use of the make-up of their team, and it is working well. Their defence is deeper? Get out of here.

Here is some food for thought for you to chew on:

Deryk Fricken Engelland... let me rephrase that... THIRTY FIVE year old Deryk Fricken Engelland is having a career year in Vegas, already having eclipsed any of his previous totals in Calgary, and eclipsing his totals in Pittsburgh where he was used as both a defencemen and as a forward. Actually, to drive this point a little further, you have to go back to the 2004-05 Wranglers to see Engelland have more points in a season than he has now - in his entire professional OR JUNIOR career. He is about to pass that as well.

No, it must be because that Vegas team just suddenly got more talented.. just because...

There is not a better team in the entire NHL that you can point to and say: "That is a better coached team than Vegas". There simply isn't. Gallant has been magic this year. They system employed, his in-game decisions, his roster management, his leadership - everything has been going well for Vegas in very large measure to what he has done. Vegas is a fast team, but they play way faster because of Gallant.

David Perron - a vet of 706 games and stops in powerhouse teams as well as lousy teams - has never sniffed anywhere close to a PPG. You want to tell me that he would be the 2nd most talented player on the Flames roster right now? Good lord.

Vegas deserves a TONNE of accolades. George McPhee deserves a tonne of accolades for assembling a fast team. Remember the cries on this forum about how McPhee is already tanking before the season started?

This is what a team that fires on all cylinders looks like. This is a well-coached team, with a roster that is willing to work hard every single night. David Perron is NOT a superstar. Engelland is NOT better at transitioning the puck or creating offence than Hamonic.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

KA-BOOM!

This Just In! THE LAS VEGAS GOLDEN KNIGHTS ARE A BETTER TEAM THAN THE FLAMES!

4 forwards over 50 points compared to Calgary's 2. 2 players over a point per game to Calgary's 1.

Ferland's 20 goals would be good enough to tie for 5th on their roster in goals (with Reilly smith, who has 53 points compared to Ferland's 34...)

To believe the Flames would be producing more offense than Las Vegas is to believe that with a different coach, Backlund would be over a point per game over the course of 60 games. To believe the Flames would be producing more offense with a different coach is to believe that Michael Frolik, who has never scored 20, would somehow have 21 goals through 60 games.

I don't know how people can watch games like that or the one against Tampa or against Boston or against the Leafs and say "yeah, we can hang with these guys". The Flames don't have close to that kind of depth, not even close.

Dougie with 36 points is the 4th highest scorer on the roster.

Colin Miller, with 33 points, is Las Vegas' SEVENTH highest scorer. AND THEY HAVE TWO DEFENDERS WITH 30 POINTS.

The Flames do not have enough talent up front to be competitive, and they have way too much salary on defense to be able to address it in a significant way.

That Vegas team is paying Clarkson and Grabovski 10 million dollars not to play for them.

The Flames are paying Stajan and Brouwer close to the same to be active roster players.

This is where I just absolutely shake my head at some posters who continually whine about the coach. The Flames are a salary imbalanced roster without nearly enough scoring punch up front, and they've been like this for two calendar years now.

This team is a pretender, not a contender, and GG is low on the list of problems facing the organization right now.

Compare our roster today to our roster in 2015 - do you honestly believe that we had more talent then? Because we finished 8th in scoring in 2015, and we're 21st now - where is this massive downgrade in talent?

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland > Gaudreau-Monahan-Hudler
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik > Bouma-Backlund-Jones
Bennett-Jankowski-Hathaway > Raymond-Colborne-Jooris
Brouwer-Stajan-Lazar <= Bollig-Stajan-Byron

Giordano-Hamilton >= Giordano-Brodie
Brodie-Hamonic > Russell-Wideman
Kulak-Stone > Smid-Engelland

Outside of the 4th line, which IMO is only a downgrade because Stajan is 3 years older, where do the 20 extra goals come from? Our top line is scoring 30% more than it was in 2015. On our 2nd line we've replaced a 4th liner we bought out with a guy who's a star already at 20, and a guy who couldn't get a contract the next year with a solid vet who scores 35-40 points every year. We replaced a 3rd line of guys who are all out of the league by now with two first-round picks (not gonna argue Hathaway's an upgrade on talent). And our 4th line is basically the same: a veteran who's not that good, Matt Stajan at C, and a speedster with no finish on the RW.

Our D-core is also much better: we've still got a top pairing that's the envy of the league and can dominate both ends of the ice. Our 2nd pair is a massive upgrade on talent alone. Hamonic is comfortably the best defensively of the 4, and both Brodie and Hamonic skate better than either Russell or Wideman. For all the #### we give our current second pair, Russell-Wideman absolutely hemorrhaged shots and chances against. And for the first time in years we have a 3rd pair that's actually competent - I don't think I need to explain that one.

So how does that add up to ~20 fewer goals (21st vs 8th in scoring in 2015)? If coaching doesn't have an impact, did our entire roster outside of the top line just become 10% worse at scoring? Or maybe, when just about every player has the same problem, the coach might be part of that problem.

For all his faults, Hartley squeezed every last goal out of a pretty bad roster by playing to their strengths. This roster should be able to play the type of up-tempo game that the elite teams are playing, but we're not. That's on the coach in my opinion.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If this post doesnn't say it all.

you can't even come up with a name of a player who would be decent on the second line after basically getting rid of lines 2 and 3.

This team is terrible up front. But they're paying Michael Stone 3.6 million to play 12 minutes per game 5-5. Hamonic at 3.8 is playing 18 minutes a night 5-5.

There are massive, massive holes in the lineup.

To top up the reason people defend the coach is because:

A)This mistakes this team usually makes are brain headed decisions (aka nobody is telling Brodie and Frolik to make countless boneheaded giveaways the last couple weeks).

B) The roster composition is too heavily weighted on the 4th line, and bottom pairing.

And that is the real problem with this team right now Brouwer ($4.5M), Stajan ($3.1M), Stone ($3.6M) are not good enough but are paid too much and get too much respect from the coaches.

$11.2M in cap space on 3rd pairing / 4th line players that don't provide much more than call ups from the farm team could provide.

If you could redistribute the spend for this team for $5-6M forward that could play on the top 2 lines, a $3-4M forward for the 3rd line, and then a $2M d-man on the bottom pairing we'd be much better off.

For example Vegas is a team of cast offs that nobody else really wanted but if we spend that $11.2M on Reilly Smith ($5M), Cody Eakin ($$3.8M), and Brayden McNabb ($2.5M) then how much better off is this team.

And I used those 3 names from Vegas because they were true cast offs. Guys intentionally left unprotected (Eakin/McNabb) or that Vegas needed to have an incentive to take (Smith).

Hypothetical but imagine a line up that looked like:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Smith
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Eakin - Ferland
Versteeg - Jankowski - Lazar
Hathaway

Gio - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
McNabb - Andersson
Kulak

Keep coaching staff the same and I bet you that team is firmly in a playoff spot. Instead the coaching staff has a non-ideal top line, a 3rd line that is made up of 3 young guys that are very inconsistent, and a revolving door on the 4th line.

[robbie111]

This team has the scoring they need if they activate the defense. Watching the game against Vegas made it painfully clear that the problem is player utilization, systems and coaching.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

How have they given WAY to many pieces of the future? Two draft pics this year where they still have time to recoup the second (IMO)?

Over the last two years, the Flames have traded away:

1 x 1st
4 x 2nd
2 x 3rd*

* 1x becomes a 2nd if Flames make the playoffs

...and received:

2x 2nd
3x 4th

Looks like impatience setting in to me. That deficit of picks will unquestionably hurt the future intake of talent. Which is a tradeoff teams make when they think they're ready to shift gears to the next level and exchange long-term pain for short-term gain. The problem is, the team isn't trending up. When the peak of your long-term cycle is 8-10 in the conference, something has gone wrong.

Patience? Look at the roster the Jets have assembled by carefully and patiently turning older players into picks, and then drafting and developing well.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I've read it all now.

Yes, everyone and their monkey saw that Vegas was a much more talented squad than the Flames at the start of the season!! How on earth did I forget this?

Come on. Don't you remember how many depth guys on the Flames had career years under Hartley? Joe Colborne scored 20 goals. Flames had some pretty high scoring defencemen then.

Systems play a TONNE into point production. The reason you change up systems is to give your team the best chance to win most nights based on the roster and philosophy you want to play. Flames took a decided turn when they let go of Hartley and hired Gulutzan to focus more on the defensive side of the game. That usually means that you sacrifice some offence.

Vegas is playing a very up-tempo game that is designed around speed, hard on the forecheck, aggressive defence and especially around the fast transition. Look at how the break out. Look at how they force turnovers, or force the other team to move the puck faster and not give them any time and space. As soon as they get the puck, they look for a stretch pass, and if it isn't there, they skate up the ice as fast as they can.

It is not about them being the vastly superior hockey club on paper. It is about them being a well coached team that has the right system in place to make use of the make-up of their team, and it is working well. Their defence is deeper? Get out of here.

Here is some food for thought for you to chew on:

Deryk Fricken Engelland... let me rephrase that... THIRTY FIVE year old Deryk Fricken Engelland is having a career year in Vegas, already having eclipsed any of his previous totals in Calgary, and eclipsing his totals in Pittsburgh where he was used as both a defencemen and as a forward. Actually, to drive this point a little further, you have to go back to the 2004-05 Wranglers to see Engelland have more points in a season than he has now - in his entire professional OR JUNIOR career. He is about to pass that as well.

No, it must be because that Vegas team just suddenly got more talented.. just because...

There is not a better team in the entire NHL that you can point to and say: "That is a better coached team than Vegas". There simply isn't. Gallant has been magic this year. They system employed, his in-game decisions, his roster management, his leadership - everything has been going well for Vegas in very large measure to what he has done. Vegas is a fast team, but they play way faster because of Gallant.

David Perron - a vet of 706 games and stops in powerhouse teams as well as lousy teams - has never sniffed anywhere close to a PPG. You want to tell me that he would be the 2nd most talented player on the Flames roster right now? Good lord.

Vegas deserves a TONNE of accolades. George McPhee deserves a tonne of accolades for assembling a fast team. Remember the cries on this forum about how McPhee is already tanking before the season started?

This is what a team that fires on all cylinders looks like. This is a well-coached team, with a roster that is willing to work hard every single night. David Perron is NOT a superstar. Engelland is NOT better at transitioning the puck or creating offence than Hamonic.

David Perron is 1 year older than Backlund.

David Perron has 3 x 50 point seasons to Backlund's 1.

Perron has 6 x 40 point seasons to Backlund's 2.

Perron has 4 x 20 goal seasons to Backlund's 2.

It is completely reasonable and downright expected that David Perron is a better offensive player than Mikael Backlund.

Gallant deserves credit for how well that team is playing. But they are a deeper roster. They get scoring from all 4 lines. The Flames struggle to get scoring from 2 lines.

The Flames NEED their defenders to score goals to win games, and even then, struggle.

The point isn't that there is just one team better than Calgary and they are vegas and they are a fluke, it is that there are multiple teams in the west better than Calgary and they can't all possibly be flukes.

I don't think Gallant turns Brouwer into a 40 point player, do you? Is Brouwer's problem the coach?

The Flames have multiple players having career offensive years this year. Is that just happenstance?

You can't have your cake and eat it to. The top end of the roster is performing amazingly. The rest of the roster is full of has beens, bargain basement reclamations and guys that don't belong in the league.

Frolik has played for DeBoer, Quennville, Maurice, Hartley and Gulutzan and has scored more than 20 goals twice, and that was almost 10 years ago. How delusional do you have to be to expect him to score 20-25 goals in a season? He won a cup with Chicago scoring just 10 points in 45 games. How is this possible?

Well, the depth chart for Chicago at the time looked like this:

Kane
Hossa
Shaw
Frolik

Flames Depth Chart:

Ferland
Frolik
Hathaway
Brouwer

Gee, what's the missing element here....

[RoughRiderRowdy]

So tired of all the pom pom waving posters on here. Our team simply isnt good enough!! We overrated giordano brodie ferland almost everyone. Our playoff chances were over yesterday with a regulation loss and were not done plummeting down the standings

[atb]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Flames took a decided turn when they let go of Hartley and hired Gulutzan to focus more on the defensive side of the game. That usually means that you sacrifice some offence.

If that was their thinking then it really has been a huge failure. With a much improved defense (on paper) and significantly better goaltending than Hartley ever had, the Flames are 21st in goals against.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

So tired of all the pom pom waving posters on here. Our team simply isnt good enough!! We overrated giordano brodie ferland almost everyone. Our playoff chances were over yesterday with a regulation loss and were not done plummeting down the standings

So say we win the 7 games we have against Arizona x 3, Buffalo, NY Rangers, NY Islanders and Ottawa. Would you still think the season is over?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

So tired of all the pom pom waving posters on here. Our team simply isnt good enough!! We overrated giordano brodie ferland almost everyone. Our playoff chances were over yesterday with a regulation loss and were not done plummeting down the standings

Lmao, there are way more doom and gloom pitchfork carriers like yourself than pom pom waving apologists here, and it's not even close.

I know which ones I find more tiring, though.

[Beninho]

Teams soft

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Lmao, there are way more doom and gloom pitchfork carriers like yourself than pom pom waving apologists here, and it's not even close.

I know which ones I find more tiring, though.

I'm definitely more on the "doom and gloom" bandwagon, and even I find posts like RRR's here tiresome.

If you want to take the time to articulate why this or that is the problem, go right ahead - that should be welcomed. But drive-by posts with no substance on either side of the fence just worsen the quality of the discussion and contribute to a sense of toxicity on these forums. It aggravates people on the other side of the discussion and IMO it's a huge part of why we end up at each other's throats so often.