2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Explain Las Vegas' dominance with terms like "playing over their heads" and "Vegas flu" and then, in the same post, accuse another poster of having a bad take.

Chutzpah

Okay fair enough. Explain to me why Vegas is so effective. Do you anticipate them to be contending moving forward or is this year a one off?

I absolutely believe the Vegas Flu is a thing. You can leave your hotel room to grab something from the lobby and next thing you know 4 hours have passed. Vegas is an amazing time with so many things to distract people.

They have multiple players having career seasons. That is not an outlier?

Teams absolutely took them lightly like they did the Oiler last year. Vegas gets on a run and builds confidence and they are not slowing down.


So in conclusion Kulak could easily be a top 4 D because Vegas reasons.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by neo45

All of their D men are better than Kulak.

Probably why they picked them over you know, Kulak.

*whoosh*

Point is that sometimes you don't know what you have in a player until you give them a chance. Kulaks an excellent example. He has top four upside. Sure maybe it doesn't work out. But Vegas is dominating the league with guys, especially on D, who the majority of never got a great opportunity with their clubs.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

*whoosh*

Point is that sometimes you don't know what you have in a player until you give them a chance. Kulaks an excellent example. He has top four upside. Sure maybe it doesn't work out. But Vegas is dominating the league with guys, especially on D, who the majority of never got a great opportunity with their clubs.

But you’re saying that trading Brodie might not be all bad because Kulak MIGHT step up and fill the role?

Seems extremely risky and honestly just straight up likely to fail.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Sometimes I think people’s expectations of Brodie is that of a 7 million dollar defenceman instead of what he is and has been.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by dino7c

UFA Kris Russell almost got us a first rounder

some people seriously under rate the value of dmen

But in fact, he got us a very late second rounder and two other pieces of little to no value because the Stars protected themselves on that deal. At the end of the day, the entire Russell return was less than one of the Hamonic picks.

I don't want to nitpick and argue here, but BT is the same GM who upgraded the D immeasurably through low cost, shrewd pickups like Stone and Schlemko. Neither of these players are as good as Brodie, but to me the question is whether you can plug holes with low cost pickups like that, and use assets to pick up some scoring. And would the team be better as a result.

I think its a reasonable question to pose, as I'm not sure the team as designed is a championship contender and I can't see where the scoring help will come from.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

But in fact, he got us a very late second rounder and two other pieces of little to no value because the Stars protected themselves on that deal. At the end of the day, the entire Russell return was less than one of the Hamonic picks.

I don't want to nitpick and argue here, but BT is the same GM who upgraded the D immeasurably through low cost, shrewd pickups like Stone and Schlemko. Neither of these players are as good as Brodie, but to me the question is whether you can plug holes with low cost pickups like that, and use assets to pick up some scoring. And would the team be better as a result.

I think its a reasonable question to pose, as I'm not sure the team as designed is a championship contender and I can't see where the scoring help will come from.

Say the offseason unfolds like this:

TJ Brodie is traded for scoring help. -$4.65M

Mikael Backlund leaves in free agency. -$3.575M

Matt Stajan leaves/retires. -$3.185M

Troy Brouwer is bought out. -$3M

Those four moves free up $14.41M in cap space. Brodie could be traded for a haul of picks or straight across a la Larsson/Hall.

Notable free agents:

John Tavares - 27
James Neal - 30
Patric Hornqvist - 31
JVR - 28
John Carlson - 28

The only major internal signings are Rittich and Jankowski - Rittich isn't going to cost more than $1M, and Jankowski comes out anywhere from $1.5-2.5 if I'm guessing.

A year later, Tkachuk and Bennett are RFAs and while Tkachuk is going to get paid, I don't think Bennett's going to cost a premium. Mike Smith's deal is the only major one to expire that year.

They have a surplus of NHL defensemen this off-season, and they'll have to move at least one to add to their offense. Since Brodie is clearly the most valuable of Stone/Hamonic/Brodie, you trade him and build the non-Dougie/Gio parts of your D around players more of the Stone/Hamonic mould. Non-star players, but solid players.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Brodie is better than Hamonic. I'm surprised that's even a question. Which is why, IMO, his trade value would be as suggested.

The premium skill sets for modern NHL defencemen are mobility and puck moving ability. Brodie, despite his gaffs, can do that as well as anyone in the league.

The priority of a Dman is to be sound in their own end and then yes be able to move the puck. Every Dman on the FLames is able to move the puck. One Dman is having serious issues with positioning and ability to protect the front of the net and is continuously being caught out of position and it is costing his team points.

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

You don't need to be a top 20 NHL dman to net a handsome return in a trade. Top 4 D on a good contract, exceptional skater and puck mover.

That's not homerism, that's understanding the going rate for a rare commodity in the NHL trade landscape.

You're claiming the main ability for a Dman in todays NHL is being able to move the puck and skate and Brodie is as good as anyone, yet he no where close to the top 30 Dmen in the league in terms of quality of play on the ice, in that regard as evidenced by his numbers. And yes, I said 30 now because im expanding the amount of players who are better than Brodie, and that list or number could grow considerably if we really want to get into it.

Bottom line is, Brodie is not as good as the premier D in the league or he would be one himself, which he is not.

Originally Posted by dino7c

UFA Kris Russell almost got us a first rounder

some people seriously under rate the value of dmen

echoing the post after this, fact is, he didnt. So... the debate is, what do you mean by the term "almost"?

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

Sometimes I think people’s expectations of Brodie is that of a 7 million dollar defenceman instead of what he is and has been.

There are teams out there that could certainly use a Brodie and absolutely he could earn a $7m payday under the right circumstances. Do I think a GM would be out to lunch paying that for him? Yes, I do.

Bottom line with those who are arguing with me, there is more video evidence out there supporting my opinion than there is supporting that Brodie is anything more than a bottom 6 dman that can skate, and that comes at the cost of his own zone coverage, where ther Flames are having the most issues.. not a coincidence nor is the fact that Brodie is on the ice for a lot of those back breaking goals against.

[sureLoss]

It sounds like the Blue Jackets and Brandon Dubinsky are headed down a similar path as Ryan Johansen.

https://theathletic.com/220381/2018/...rsonal-issues/

Brandon Dubinsky was sent back to Columbus on Tuesday, leaving the Blue Jackets' road trip early to deal with ongoing personal issues that have hampered his season and could threaten his career, sources have told The Athletic.

“He was sent home for medical diagnosis,” Overhardt said. “He’s had several injuries this season. The club and my client decided that this was best. There are several issues we’ve been dealing with behind the scenes to get him healthy.”

Dubinsky was disciplined by the team earlier in the season. In October, his alternate captain’s “A” was stripped by head coach John Tortorella after his play struggled to open the season, though the team insisted the forward was still a leader in the locker room.

This is very reminiscent of when the Blue Jackets sent Ryan Johansen home with a mysterious illness after Tortorella called him out on his fitness levels back in 2015.

[neo45]

He has one of those big old full NMC though, doesn’t he?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

*whoosh*

Point is that sometimes you don't know what you have in a player until you give them a chance. Kulaks an excellent example. He has top four upside. Sure maybe it doesn't work out. But Vegas is dominating the league with guys, especially on D, who the majority of never got a great opportunity with their clubs.

Well it's no secret that the NHL coaches and GM's are dinosaurs of professional sports when it comes to providing opportunity for young players to graduate to full time NHL duty. Other leagues can't wait to replace aging veteran players with younger, higher upside, and cheaper options but the NHL just loves overpaid veteran players and coaches in particular seem to feel the need to punish young players for every little mistake despite the fact that the veteran guys are making the same ones. Also with guaranteed salaries coaches hands are tied when it comes to making roster changes so when the Flames lose to the Jets it's a lot easier to take Mangiapane out of the lineup than a veteran player like say Brouwer for example because rookies are trained to accept and expect benchings which is easier than benching a guy that you are stuck with for two more years.

[SuperMatt18]

3 years after this one at $5.8M, with a bit of a downward trajectory on his stats.

Don't see anybody really biting on that contract unless a bad deal goes the other way.

[David Struch]

Eric Francis of Sportsnet: Sure the Flames could use someone like Max Pacioretty or Mike Hoffman to improve their top-nine forwards, but at what cost?

Francis wonders if defenseman Erik Karlsson is made available, could he be a fit for the Flames and what would it cost them?

What if they offered Adam Fox, goalie prospect Jon Gillies or Tyler Parsons, and defensive prospect Rasmus Andersson or Oliver Kylington? Would the Senators be interested in that type of package or would they need to include a roster player as well?

The Flames have the salary cap space this year to add him.

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumo...es/2018/01/21/

[GioforPM]

I'm not sure how Karlsson is a fit. He needs ice time so he's a top pairing guy, which bumps Hamilton down with Brodie? But IMO Brodie needs the defensive style of Hamonic who has IMO gotten way better at covering for him. I guess you could trade Stone as part of the deal and go:

Gio-Karlsson
Kulak-Hamilton
Brodie-Hamonic

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I'm not sure how Karlsson is a fit. He needs ice time so he's a top pairing guy, which bumps Hamilton down with Brodie? But IMO Brodie needs the defensive style of Hamonic who has IMO gotten way better at covering for him. I guess you could trade Stone as part of the deal and go:

Gio-Karlsson
Kulak-Hamilton
Brodie-Hamonic

I'm pretty sure Hamilton would have to go back in the deal for the Senators to even consider moving Karlsson to Calgary. They would hang up on Treliving if he offered what Francis speculated. You aren't going to get one of the best players in the world for a bunch of average AHL prospects.

[Sandman]

I would not trade for Karlsson at this point-he would cost way too much in assets to aquire
(it would take a lot more than what Francis proposed) and cap hit for a player that I believe is on the cusp of a dive. He never had a great defensive game, but it has regressed miserably. The injury that has hampered him has taken a bite out of his skating, which is one of the biggest parts of his game.

[Mattman]

Regardless of cap hit, or players and pieces it would take to get Karlsson, every fan has to agree Erik Karlsson is a wicked hockey player. 31 points so far this season puts him 2nd for points on the Sens, and would put him 4th on the Flames. Dougie Hamilton has the most points for any of our D with 22 points.

Everyone will admit that would put our defense in the elite of the NHL, adds a serious scoring/play making threat to another aspect of our team.

That being said I don't see Gio or Hamonic going in a trade, and that would be a beautiful set up on the back end for a long long while.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Regardless of cap hit, or players and pieces it would take to get Karlsson, every fan has to agree Erik Karlsson is a wicked hockey player. 31 points so far this season puts him 2nd for points on the Sens, and would put him 4th on the Flames. Dougie Hamilton has the most points for any of our D with 22 points.

Everyone will admit that would put our defense in the elite of the NHL, adds a serious scoring/play making threat to another aspect of our team.

That being said I don't see Gio or Hamonic going in a trade, and that would be a beautiful set up on the back end for a long long while.

It would also fix the PP which right now is the Flames biggest weakness

If Ottawa were to trade him why not Brodie and prospects?

Gio & Hamilton
Karlsson & Hamonic
Stome & Kulak

Brodie, Fox & Mangipane could get it done too unless other teams out bid that I would say it isn't terrible for the Sens as they can't afford Karlsson anyways.

[united]

Not sure where else to post this, but there were some fun stories on the 31 Thoughts podcast today. Listen for yourselves as I likely screwed at least something up.

2015
The Blues and Sharks had a deal in place that would have seen Oshie and Shattenkirk move to the Sharks in exchange for the 9th-overall pick and an unnamed but prominent roster player. Deal fell apart when Timo Meier was still available at 9.

2016
The Rangers and Oilers either had a deal or were very close to a deal that would have seen the Rangers acquire the 4th-overall pick in order to select Clayton Keller. The deal fell apart when the Blue Jackets took Pierre-Luc Dubois at number three, allowing the Oilers to take Jesse Puljujarvi at four.

The much-rumoured three-way deal would have seen the Flames move up to three where they would have taken Jesse Puljujarvi, the Blue Jackets drop to fourth where they would have taken Pierre-Luc Dubois, the Canucks still would have taken Olli Juolevi at five, and the Oilers would have dropped to sixth and taken Mikhail Sergachev or Matthew Tkachuck...but Friedman believes it would have been Sergachev.
(Thank goodness that fell apart, holy ####!)

The Canucks and Canadiens were believed to have the groundwork for a deal where that would have been based around the Canucks receiving PK Subban in exchange for the fifth-overall pick where the Canadiens would have taken Pierre-Luc Dubois. Deal off with the Blue Jackets taking Dubois.

They believe the Oilers and Wild were deep into talks regarding a Ryan Nugent-Hopkins for Matt Dumba trade, but it obviously didn't happen.


It's remarkable how the Blue Jackets taking Dubois effected so many things. I love stories like these.


2006
The story behind the classic moment where Bobby Clarke, at the microphone, forgot Claude Giroux's name was because the Flyers, picking 22nd, had two players they really liked still on the board: Trevor Lewis and Bob Sanguinetti.
Trevor Lewis got picked by the Kings at 17, and at 21, one pick pick before the Flyers', the Rangers grabbed Sanguinetti.
Furious, the Flyers had to make a quick decision on which player to take now, and, at the microphone, Bobby Clarke, in his anger, forgot the name of the player they decided on. That worked out really well to say the least!

1985
The Flames went into the draft badly wanting to draft a goaltender and three caught their eye: Sean Burke, Troy Gamble, Kay Whitmore. The Flames, picking 27th-overall in the second round, were sitting nicely when with only three picks remaining until 27, all three goaltenders they liked were still available. At 24, the Devils took Burke. At 25, the Canucks took Gamble. And, at 26, sure enough the Whalers took Whitmore. The Flames, having had their hopes and plans ruined ended up with the consolation prize of a centre named Joe Nieuwendyk.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Okay fair enough. Explain to me why Vegas is so effective. Do you anticipate them to be contending moving forward or is this year a one off?

I absolutely believe the Vegas Flu is a thing. You can leave your hotel room to grab something from the lobby and next thing you know 4 hours have passed. Vegas is an amazing time with so many things to distract people.

They have multiple players having career seasons. That is not an outlier?

Teams absolutely took them lightly like they did the Oiler last year. Vegas gets on a run and builds confidence and they are not slowing down.


So in conclusion Kulak could easily be a top 4 D because Vegas reasons.

Vegas is good because they're fast, well-coached, have good D and good goaltending. The only thing they truly lack is elite talent.

Multiple players having career seasons is to be expected from a team with no first-line players - logically, they'd be playing guys more than they're used to in situations they don't usually get to play in. Some of the players they picked are also actually quite good. Not franchise players by any stretch, but certainly productive, valuable NHL bodies.

As for the Vegas hangover, I don't really buy into it. Is Vegas that much more distracting than Manhattan or Los Angeles?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Vegas is good because they're fast, well-coached, have good D and good goaltending. The only thing they truly lack is elite talent.

Multiple players having career seasons is to be expected from a team with no first-line players - logically, they'd be playing guys more than they're used to in situations they don't usually get to play in. Some of the players they picked are also actually quite good. Not franchise players by any stretch, but certainly productive, valuable NHL bodies.

As for the Vegas hangover, I don't really buy into it. Is Vegas that much more distracting than Manhattan or Los Angeles?

I would say it absolutely is. Vegas is a town based on partying NY and LA are massive cities with pockets of great nightlife where Vegas is one big party