Kramer pulls a Mel Gibson

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Are you that naive? So you dont believe Barry Bonds set the home run record? You dont think there is a International Space Station? You dont think Sutter drafter Dion Phaneuf? Shall I go on?

Sorry bucko but there are many ways something can be established as fact, and if you think your presence is required for that to happen you living in a sad, cynical and naive world.

When reports from patrons, the club owner both follow the same vain...and then Richards himself makes no mention of anything to the contrary of those reports....in fact no one has said anything contrary to those reports....that is as good as fact.

No where does Richards go into what was said to him during the incedent. He said he was heckled...thats it. So like I said.....we do not know exactly what happened as far as what was said to him. Thats all I was saying until you came flying in and said "don't post misinformation". I wasn't.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uNNiMOGKThg

Apology right here. From the heart if you ask me.

No matter what led up to it, who started what, it was all wrong.

He should apologize, he has, but I am sure he is realizing this now.

It takes but one fleeting moment for you to lose your reputation, it takes a life time to get it back.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by MagicallyAdept

So if you have an avatar of Borat - an obviously racist character, does that make you racist too? Most likely not.

I do find it bizarre that people can only count you racist if you use a term in a negative way. If i said "you crazy Canadian *******" to a friend while we are having fun it does not make me racist/nationalist but if i say it after an arguement it can be said i have something against him being a Candadian. You are racist/nationalist/sizist etc if you ever mention some words or not racist no matter what you say or not racist despite anything you say. There is no middle ground really. I believe you only know if you are a racist/homophobe/nationalist/sizist/sexist etc. What he said does not make him a racist person, it just makes him look like a complete twat and most likely ruin what career he had and thats worse for him than if we think he is a racist.

What really annoys me though is the policy of some places (UK for example) that everything is deemed to be a crime against some kind of group. If i have a fight with a black guy - its a racist attack. If i say woman are better cooks - i am a sexist, if i say i don't like Brokeback Mountain i am a homophobe. Also as i thin straight white male i can be sexist/racist/homophobic/sizist no matter what yet black/asian people cannot be racist to white people even if they say things like "white bread" or "snowflake". Everyone should be equal no matter what and the law should reflect that.

The post's title reminds me of a joke:

They said Mel Gibson could never play Scotsman in Braveheart but look at him now , an alcoholic and a racist... - p.s this does not mean i think Scottist people are racist or alcoholics :P

Oh and you 'crazy Canadians' ..... :P:P:P

Dear god....did you read the thread?

We have been through this argument already, go back and have a read, I dont want to have to make two people look stupid in the same thread with the same information.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Dear god....did you read the thread?

We have been through this argument already, go back and have a read, I dont want to have to make two people look stupid in the same thread with the same information.

You are the only one that looks stupid....saying punching people is better than calling them a ******. Not to mention you spout out that Richards claims nothing was really said to him when in fact he never said such a thing.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

No where does Richards go into what was said to him during the incedent. He said he was heckled...thats it. So like I said.....we do not know exactly what happened as far as what was said to him. Thats all I was saying until you came flying in and said "don't post misinformation". I wasn't.

Think about this rationally. This is a big, well known club on a friday night in LA, there were probably several hundred people there. Wouldnt you think if there was anything more to the incident ONE of those people would have made a comment to some paper, radio station or television network? Of course they would..Richards is endeared by many throughout the nation for his Seinfeld role and there would be a lot of people who would want to reveal the truth if it made him look a bit better. On top of that, you have to think alot of the club patrons were Richards fans who came specifically to see him as it was a scheduled set, they more then anyone would reveal there was more to it, if that was indeed the case.

Of course there is a "chance" something more occured, but given the facts, the probability is slimer then slim at this point.

[Flames_Gimp]

LOL @ this thread

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

You are the only one that looks stupid....saying punching people is better than calling them a ******. Not to mention you spout out that Richards claims nothing was really said to him when in fact he never said such a thing.

Your not worth responding to anymore, clearly you either cant read, or just choose to make things up to try and dig yourself out of the hole your sitting in, as usual, on this off topic forum you dig a nice hole every day it seems.

Why dont you go back and find where I made a remark like you claim? You can look but you wont find it.

Your a real class act pal.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Think about this rationally. This is a big, well known club on a friday night in LA, there were probably several hundred people there. Wouldnt you think if there was anything more to the incident ONE of those people would have made a comment to some paper, radio station or television network? Of course they would..Richards is endeared by many throughout the nation for his Seinfeld role and there would be a lot of people who would want to reveal the truth if it made him look a bit better. On top of that, you have to think alot of the club patrons were Richards fans who came specifically to see him as it was a scheduled set, they more then anyone would reveal there was more to it, if that was indeed the case.

Of course there is a "chance" something more occured, but given the facts, the probability is slimer then slim at this point.

I accept your apology. That is all I said until you came out and accused me of spreading mis-information....Then after you say this your next post is saying how I can't read.

I said "Like has been posted before....we don;t know what led up to his out burst"

Then you come out with this big attitude "Yes we do. Read the thread and the links provided before blindly posting mis-information"

And now you post "Of course there is a "chance" something more occured, but given the facts, the probability is slimer then slim at this point" proving my point. And you have the nerve to say"Your not worth responding to anymore, clearly you either cant read, or just choose to make things up to try and dig yourself out of the hole your sitting in, as usual, on this off topic forum you dig a nice hole every day it seems"

Yes you didn't specifically say "Not to mention you spout out that Richards claims nothing was really said to him when in fact he never said such a thing." but really that is what you are saying....Am I wrong?

[Calgaryborn]

I really doubt if the two black guys are still as bent out of shape as some of the members of this board. He said some nasty things in the heat of an exchange. Richards apologized as he should of. Of course he didn't go into specifics about what set him off. That's not the proper way to make an apology. This has not destroyed Richard's career.

A person isn't a racist because he uses a racially derogatory term any more than a parent is a child abuser if he or she yells at their child. There has to be a history of such actions before you apply the label.

[JiriHrdina]

My take after watching the Letterman segment
- His anguish and regret over the incident looked genuine
- I also think there is something to what he was saying about his performance style and losing control. I think that it went in a very bad direction but that it was in part due to his approach as a performer. He lost control of it.

Look, the actions shouldn't be minimized. He stood up on a stage and called and used a racial slur. No excuse for that. None.

But I also believe in 2nd chances, and that he should not be buried for this.

[troutman]

The Letterman segment:

http://www.cbs.com/latenight/lateshow/

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I accept your apology. That is all I said until you came out and accused me of spreading mis-information....Then after you say this your next post is saying how I can't read.

I said "Like has been posted before....we don;t know what led up to his out burst"

Then you come out with this big attitude "Yes we do. Read the thread and the links provided before blindly posting mis-information"

And now you post "Of course there is a "chance" something more occured, but given the facts, the probability is slimer then slim at this point" proving my point. And you have the nerve to say"Your not worth responding to anymore, clearly you either cant read, or just choose to make things up to try and dig yourself out of the hole your sitting in, as usual, on this off topic forum you dig a nice hole every day it seems"

Yes you didn't specifically say "Not to mention you spout out that Richards claims nothing was really said to him when in fact he never said such a thing." but really that is what you are saying....Am I wrong?

Yeah apology..

You ignoring all the rational facts and sticking to a slim possibilty that a grand conspiracy has occured to wrong Kramer is a great argument, is this the best you have? Just admit the chances of there being more to the story are about as slim as the chances of the sky falling tommorow....and yes, I will accept your apology when it is tendered.

Ohh yes I do have the nerve to say your making things up, and you continue to do so. Here is what I said(you realize the quote function would allow you to quote my post instead of you trying to read what you think i might mean right? Just thought I would let you know):

"When reports from patrons, the club owner both follow the same vain...and then Richards himself makes no mention of anything to the contrary of those reports....in fact no one has said anything contrary to those reports....that is as good as fact"

Yep thats the same as saying Richards SAID nothing was more was said to him....again, here is you making things up again, nice work.

You have been beaten so badly in this debate you have resorted to making things up, and mis-quoting what i posted on THIS PAGE of the thread just to try and re-gain some credability, sad indeed.

Again I say, your a real class act pal.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Yeah apology..

You ignoring all the rational facts and sticking to a slim possibilty that a grand conspiracy has occured to wrong Kramer is a great argument, is this the best you have? Just admit the chances of there being more to the story are about as slim as the chances of the sky falling tommorow....and yes, I will accept your apology when it is tendered.

Ohh yes I do have the nerve to say your making things up, and you continue to do so. Here is what I said(you realize the quote function would allow you to quote my post instead of you trying to read what you think i might mean right? Just thought I would let you know):

"When reports from patrons, the club owner both follow the same vain...and then Richards himself makes no mention of anything to the contrary of those reports....in fact no one has said anything contrary to those reports....that is as good as fact"

Yep thats the same as saying Richards SAID nothing was more was said to him....again, here is you making things up again, nice work.

You have been beaten so badly in this debate you have resorted to making things up, and mis-quoting what i posted on THIS PAGE of the thread just to try and re-gain some credability, sad indeed.

Again I say, your a real class act pal.

I think you are the one with a chip on their shoulder in this thread....A large portion of people agree with what I have said. I never said there was a conspiracy or that Richards has been wronged....in fact I have said the exact opposite....apparently you can't read.

All I said was we don't know what was said to him that set him off.....and we don't....but you had to be some complete ******* and start some kind of ######ed arguement about.....well....since he never said anything about it then it didn't happen BS. Go back and read what I said buddy and you will realize that I have agreed with you on a lot of things.

Just because you say I have been beaten so badly in this debate doesn't mean it is so. you are the one coming off as a complete jackass, talking down to people and thinking it is much better to punch people rather than just use words.

[VANFLAMESFAN]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

LOL @ this thread

Yeah, its getting out of hand, but its pretty funny.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I think you are the one with a chip on their shoulder in this thread....A large portion of people agree with what I have said. I never said there was a conspiracy or that Richards has been wronged....in fact I have said the exact opposite....apparently you can't read.

All I said was we don't know what was said to him that set him off.....and we don't....but you had to be some complete ******* and start some kind of ######ed arguement about.....well....since he never said anything about it then it didn't happen BS. Go back and read what I said buddy and you will realize that I have agreed with you on a lot of things.

Just because you say I have been beaten so badly in this debate doesn't mean it is so. you are the one coming off as a complete jackass, talking down to people and thinking it is much better to punch people rather than just use words.

Give it up already, jesus, every post you make just adds to how dumb you're making yourself look.

Why dont you address to us all how and why you, for about 3 or 4 posts, continued to lie about what I posted until I finally quoted myself? Why else would someone do that unless they have no leg to stand on, or is badly losing an agruement and needs some leverage?

Your attitude that something more "must" have happened, and not giving any credance to the very rational post I made about the 100's of other patrons in attendence not saying anything to the contrary is just simply inane. Like a poster said in one of the earlier pages, this "something must have happened" attitude is very similar to the sentiments following the Rodney King scandal. I am not saying your a racist, but to continually brow beat this point and discount witness statments from the event only to say that "something else must have happened" seems to me like your trying to put the blame on these black patrons.

Just give this argument up, you have no published statments that back up your point, you have no evidence on the video tape to back up your point....just admit that it is 99.9% likely that nothing more happened, and I in turn will admit there is a 0.01% chance something more did happen.

[JiriHrdina]

Jolinar/Kipperfan - take it down a notch. Anymore of the name calling junk and you both will be taking a vacation from the site.

[MagicallyAdept]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Dear god....did you read the thread?

We have been through this argument already, go back and have a read, I dont want to have to make two people look stupid in the same thread with the same information.

I was not arguing. I just wanted to put my point - that you can say negative words but still not be a racist. My point about Borat only came because i like that photo.

Kipperfan, you do seem to have a bit of chip on your shoulder by saying you do not wish to make 2 people look stupid with your superior knowledge and understanding. There was no need to act so high and mighty, some peple just wanted to show their views on this issue. I have not seen the video nor read the reports so i do not claim to have all the facts about what was said by the hecklers. My main point was that different types of people get treated differently over these issues and that it is wrong to do so. If you want to call me stupid it is ok because i can like all humans, make mistakes.

Anyway - the Flames.... They play hockey or something right.

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by MagicallyAdept

I was not arguing. I just wanted to put my point - that you can say negative words but still not be a racist. My point about Borat only came because i like that photo.

Kipperfan, you do seem to have a bit of chip on your shoulder by saying you do not wish to make 2 people look stupid with your superior knowledge and understanding. There was no need to act so high and mighty, some peple just wanted to show their views on this issue. I have not seen the video nor read the reports so i do not claim to have all the facts about what was said by the hecklers. My main point was that different types of people get treated differently over these issues and that it is wrong to do so. If you want to call me stupid it is ok because i can like all humans, make mistakes.

Anyway - the Flames.... They play hockey or something right.

Hey my bad....I didnt want to come off like a prick, but this whole thread really angers me and someone earlier was trying to call me a hypocrite because I had a Borat avatar and was condeming the actions of Richards....I do apologize to you.

[hah]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Dear god....did you read the thread?

We have been through this argument already, go back and have a read, I dont want to have to make two people look stupid in the same thread with the same information.

Good one.

A guy with a Borat Avatar spending two days argueing against Mike Richards rant.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by kipperfan

Give it up already, jesus, every post you make just adds to how dumb you're making yourself look.

Why dont you address to us all how and why you, for about 3 or 4 posts, continued to lie about what I posted until I finally quoted myself? Why else would someone do that unless they have no leg to stand on, or is badly losing an agruement and needs some leverage?

Your attitude that something more "must" have happened, and not giving any credance to the very rational post I made about the 100's of other patrons in attendence not saying anything to the contrary is just simply inane. Like a poster said in one of the earlier pages, this "something must have happened" attitude is very similar to the sentiments following the Rodney King scandal. I am not saying your a racist, but to continually brow beat this point and discount witness statments from the event only to say that "something else must have happened" seems to me like your trying to put the blame on these black patrons.

Just give this argument up, you have no published statments that back up your point, you have no evidence on the video tape to back up your point....just admit that it is 99.9% likely that nothing more happened, and I in turn will admit there is a 0.01% chance something more did happen.

Its called paraphrasing!
That is what I took from your post and that is still what I take....notice I didn't use the Quotation marks when I wrote that! I didn't lie to anyone, I simply restated what I thought your position was. If I quoted you as saying something that you didn't, then yes it would be a lie....but I didn't do that.

This all started when you posted the comment that if people are not racist they would never say a racist thing.

I called BS on that because people say things that they don't mean in the heat of the moment.

I said this to your response as to why I said BS to you.

Like I have said the past 10+ posts.....the word was used in a racial tone and was wrong....but it doesn't make him a racist. I am saying BS to your statement that who ever would say such a thing is a racist. That is wrong.

Like has been posted before....we don;t know what led up to his out burst....they may have been calling him something...who knows....but when someone snaps like that they aren't thinking of what words to say....if they were saying racist remarks to him.....it is likely he is going to retaliate in the same way.....it was wrong.....but it doesn't make him racist

Then you accuse me of spreading mis-information. Richards never clearly says why he snapped, he says he was heckled and people were talking. We don't know what was said. That is all I was saying and then you went and flew off the handle. As i said many times before, no matter what was said to him, what he did was wrong. I am simply saying, that just because he said those things, it does not mean he is a racist.

Do we understand each other now?