UCP Leadership Election

[SebC]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

I'm concerned about the ongoing devolution of Alberta politics into an urban vs rural divide.

There's always going to be some sort of division in politics - there is no need to contest what is agreed upon. I agree that urban vs. rural is a trend, but to call it a devolution requires identifying what the previous divide was and confirming that it was worse. What divide that we've already had would you prefer?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Do I think Jason has suddenly changed his mind? No, I think he's pandering for votes.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Ducay]

Oh dam, Kenney won. Oh well, on the bright side now opponents can spend X years making unbased Trump references. Hooray, just when we finished a municipal election that devolved into that same garbage - we're going to get it all over again for 2 years.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Isn't it bad to lie about your personal beliefs that will guide your governing, to get votes?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Oh dam, Kenney won. Oh well, on the bright side now opponents can spend X years making unbased Trump references. Hooray, just when we finished a municipal election that devolved into that same garbage - we're going to get it all over again for 2 years.

Nah.....Kenney is much more like Ted Cruz.

[killer_carlson]

I think the regressive left hopes that if they keep repeating things about Kenney that they will come true.

I expect we will see the bar of civility lowered to new depths while we hear that Kenney is the start of the apocalypse.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I mean, come on, if we're comparing Jason Kenney to anyone...

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think the regressive left hopes that if they keep repeating things about Kenney that they will come true.

I expect we will see the bar of civility lowered to new depths while we hear that Kenney is the start of the apocalypse.

If you've followed my posts in the OT section last few months or maybe even a year now, you've noticed that I've become increasingly unwilling to identify as liberal because of progressives who annoy me and have gone overboard. I'm very much left leaning in a lot of ways but not in the progressive, social justice warrior, identity politics way. I actually get in a lot of arguments/debates now on facebook and in person with friends over the direction of unions, the left, and progressive ideas.

The left will use Kenneys own words against him and rightly so, and even me as someone who's sick of identity politics will be alarmed by someone like Kenney, you've got issues and maybe you need to re-evaluate your own position. Kenney isn't the start of the apocalypse and no one is suggesting he is... to repeat.... Kenney holds morally repugnant views on gays and lesbians and I don't want him to be Premier. I don't believe for a moment someone who's spent his life crusading against the gays has suddenly become a tolerant centrist.

[Flamenspiel]

nm

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

If you've followed my posts in the OT section last few months or maybe even a year now, you've noticed that I've become increasingly unwilling to identify as liberal because of progressives who annoy me and have gone overboard. I'm very much left leaning in a lot of ways but not in the progressive, social justice warrior, identity politics way. I actually get in a lot of arguments/debates now on facebook and in person with friends over the direction of unions, the left, and progressive ideas.

The left will use Kenneys own words against him and rightly so, and even me as someone who's sick of identity politics will be alarmed by someone like Kenney, you've got issues and maybe you need to re-evaluate your own position. Kenney isn't the start of the apocalypse and no one is suggesting he is... to repeat.... Kenney holds morally repugnant views on gays and lesbians and I don't want him to be Premier. I don't believe for a moment someone who's spent his life crusading against the gays has suddenly become a tolerant centrist.

The ideal of course, would be a Premier whose views aligned with mine on every single issue - from economics, to education, to spending, to social values, to religious freedoms, to a vision for the future.

Unfortunately, in my life time, I have had very little luck in finding such a politician to hitch my wagon to. Which means compromise and choice.

And if that choice comes down to selecting someone whose economic and spending views I can't support (which impacts my province daily and significantly), or someone whose religious and personal views I loath (but they have no intention of acting on those views), then for me, it is a pretty easy choice.

[Ozy_Flame]

Kenney is going to dismiss all controversial social issues and tell Albertans that it's about the economy, stupid. This is so glaringly obvious.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The ideal of course, would be a Premier whose views aligned with mine on every single issue - from economics, to education, to spending, to social values, to religious freedoms, to a vision for the future.

Unfortunately, in my life time, I have had very little luck in finding such a politician to hitch my wagon to. Which means compromise and choice.

And if that choice comes down to selecting someone whose economic and spending views I can't support (which impacts my province daily and significantly), or someone whose religious and personal views I loath (but they have no intention of acting on those views), then for me, it is a pretty easy choice.

Yeah I can live with that. I just find it funny when people try and act like Kenney is something he isn't. If people are fine with voting for someone who's backwards on social issues in favour of economic interest, that's an honest take that can be debated at least.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think the regressive left hopes that if they keep repeating things about Kenney that they will come true.

I expect we will see the bar of civility lowered to new depths while we hear that Kenney is the start of the apocalypse.

So far everyone I’ve seen that believes Kenney to be a negative political figure is someone well outside the “regressive left” group. I’m sure you’re right that it will happen, but has been (and will be many more) from even the right side of the dial that take issue with Kenney. This is not something that can be passed off as “Oh it’s just the silly regressive left again.”

[jayswin]

I actually hadn't heard the term "regressive left" in a long time. I thought it had died out a while ago.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I actually hadn't heard the term "regressive left" in a long time. I thought it had died out a while ago.

It didn’t die out, it just has a very specific application, as described by RationalWiki:

The regressive left is a term coined by anti-Islamist activist Maajid Nawaz to describe a perceived segment of the left which defends certain reactionary and anti-feminist attitudes in the name of 'tolerance'. Nawaz originally used it to refer to misguided leftist tolerance of conservative and fundamentalist Islam (underbelly and all) in contrast to their progressive stance against the scourge of conservative and fundamentalist Christianity, but the term has since been extended to encompass many (but curiously not all) leftist positions that appear contradictory to progressive values.

So, will those people take issue with Kenney? Sure, probably. But I don’t see how taking issue with Kenney and bringing up rumours about him would make anyone a “regressive.” It certainly has nothing to do with defending things that are contradictory to progressive values. If anything, you’d almost think he regressive left would defend Kenney’s political moves in the name of tolerance.

I honestly think some conservatives just use it as a meaningless jab. Just like some liberals use “alt-right” as one. They have specific applications, so it sounds a bit silly using it for just anyone you don’t agree with.

[killer_carlson]

periodically check out the #ableg on twitter.
https://twitter.com/hashtag/ableg?f=...&vertical=news

It's awful (from all sides) but it shows the depths that this will get to.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It didn’t die out, it just has a very specific application, as described by RationalWiki:



So, will those people take issue with Kenney? Sure, probably. But I don’t see how taking issue with Kenney and bringing up rumours about him would make anyone a “regressive.” It certainly has nothing to do with defending things that are contradictory to progressive values. If anything, you’d almost think he regressive left would defend Kenney’s political moves in the name of tolerance.

I honestly think some conservatives just use it as a meaningless jab. Just like some liberals use “alt-right” as one. They have specific applications, so it sounds a bit silly using it for just anyone you don’t agree with.

I think it also applies to "progressives" who engage in gutter politics because the end justifies the means in their minds.

[corporatejay]

A lot of Helen Lovejoys in this thread. How about we give Kenney some time to establish a vision for the UCP and determine whether he's actually going to turn Alberta into the 1950s southern US before we decree the end of progress in alberta for all time.

2 years is a long time before the next election, a lot can happen, making a call this far out is ridiculous.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

A lot of Helen Lovejoys in this thread. How about we give Kenney some time to establish a vision for the UCP and determine whether he's actually going to turn Alberta into the 1950s southern US before we decree the end of progress in alberta for all time.

2 years is a long time before the next election, a lot can happen, making a call this far out is ridiculous.

Kenney has been a public figure for 20 years. He's not some unknown quantity. People have plenty of history to draw from to determine if he's someone whose political views align with theirs (or not).

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Kenney has been a public figure for 20 years. He's not some unknown quantity. People have plenty of history to draw from to determine if he's someone whose political views align with theirs (or not).

His views aren't ambiguous, but whether he implements them as policy (or would like to) is a completely different issue.

I may not agree with someone who thinks abortion is morally wrong, but if they understand that it's the law and don't plan on doing anything about it, it doesn't really matter to me.