UCP Leadership Election

[killer_carlson]

I think Notley's best chance is to get the pipeline west actually built and completed.

But even then I think Kenney wins

[Kjesse]

Here's one article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fabu...ower-1.2466057

And this is not to suggest Kenney is some champion of gay rights, that's not true. But also his views have been misrepresented on this forum.

He did come out against gay marriage, an issue which was society wide hotly contested recently and 20 years ago would have been unheard of. It was a major social change. That he was on the front lines at the time not supporting it does not qualify him as a homophobe, but perhaps qualified him at the time as someone who needs to take a step back from their religious upbringing and see that good can come from change.

EDIT: I see the article also points out the federal Liberal caucus voted against gay marriage in the 1990's.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think Notley's best chance is to get the pipeline west actually built and completed.

But even then I think Kenney wins

It would take a perfect storm of events to give them a chance for seats in rural Alberta, a stunning change of events to give them a chance for seats in Calgary, and they'll maintain presence in Edmonton I think regardless, just more along historical lines.

Is one pipeline enough? Maybe her best chance but its not enough.

[automaton 3]

I think there might be some wishful thinking among the anti-UCP posters in this tread.

[Corral]

Jason Kenney is cut from the same cloth as Harper. Preaches fiscal conservatism to the masses, but lets his buddies eat from the trough endlessly. Completely untrustworthy. Classic power freak.

So many events at the federal level that destroy this guy's credibility in the eyes of anyone who is not a UCP cardholder and who cares about a healthy democracy in this province - just a sample: (1) express disregard for the law in the niqab affair; (2) the Duffy scandal; (3) starving govn't scientists of cash and then putting the muzzle on them (4) directing revenue canada to audit NGOs who challenge govn't policy decisions ... the list is long.

Rural Alberta will always vote for the old white guy - but to pretend he holds views that the majority in this province agree with .. is quite laughable.

Rachel Notley is very pleased tonight with this result.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

The "tolerant" Jason Kenney.

Kenney is reported further to have said gays can marry all they want -- just as long as its a man and a woman.

The idea that this gay straight alliance thing is some how a parents right to know issue is utter horse crap, and I'm really disappointed when I read people get duped by it. How can someone be so naive over such an obvious dog whistle is beyond me.

An easy internet search on this topic, and this article shows up, with this byline: "Conservative MP Jason Kenney has come out in favour of same-sex marriage at Tory convention in Vancouver."

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...onvention.html

You're attacking the person without doing proper research or if you do know, you're then misleading others. You don't even post when the headline you post was printed. Is the story even in the internet era or did you have to go to the mircofiche?

[White Out 403]

Yeah, I think there was internet in 2005 LOL. Do I think Jason has suddenly changed his mind? No, I think he's pandering for votes.

[CliffFletcher]

I'm no fan of Kenney, and I was a supporter of gay marriage before it was cool. But if you're going to 'out' every politician who was against gay marriage 12 years ago, it's going to be a long list. For instance, Barak Obama and Hilary Clinton are going to be on that list.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Corral

Jason Kenney is cut from the same cloth as Harper. Preaches fiscal conservatism to the masses, but lets his buddies eat from the trough endlessly. Completely untrustworthy.

Care to give examples of this?

Originally Posted by Corral

Classic power freak.

Because why? To give a recent example, when Nenshi was called out for being arrogant for his alleged aggressive tendencies, he compared himself to Jason Kenney.

Originally Posted by Corral

So many events at the federal level that destroy this guy's credibility in the eyes of anyone who is not a UCP cardholder and who cares about a healthy democracy in this province - just a sample: (1) express disregard for the law in the niqab affair; (2) the Duffy scandal; (3) starving govn't scientists of cash and then putting the muzzle on them (4) directing revenue canada to audit NGOs who challenge govn't policy decisions ... the list is long.

To respond,

On (1), he was proposing the law, not disregarding it. This a controversial one though for sure. On (2) I can't find what you're talking about, on (3) Trudeau has not followed through like he said he would (one example: https://www.desmog.ca/2016/12/15/can...e-says-science), and is similar on this topic, and (4) its hard to tell what you are alleging here.

Originally Posted by Corral

Rural Alberta will always vote for the old white guy - but to pretend he holds views that the majority in this province agree with .. is quite laughable.

Rachel Notley is very pleased tonight with this result.

If I'm not already considered to be, I'll soon be an old white guy. Is that now a liability politically? I'm 45 by the way. Rachel Notley is white and is 53. Does that work for or against her?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

The "tolerant" Jason Kenney.

Kenney is reported further to have said gays can marry all they want -- just as long as its a man and a woman.

The idea that this gay straight alliance thing is some how a parents right to know issue is utter horse crap, and I'm really disappointed when I read people get duped by it. How can someone be so naive over such an obvious dog whistle is beyond me.

What year was that article, it looks like it was produced on a mimeograph using child labor.

He comes out later and says he's ok with gay marriage, but he can't win with people like you because he's just pandering for votes.

At least publish something from the last 10 years.

12 years ago the landscape was different, maybe he was pandering for votes among the non gay marriage crowd which was a lot bigger back then but secretly he was all for gay marriage.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Yeah, I think there was internet in 2005 LOL. Do I think Jason has suddenly changed his mind? No, I think he's pandering for votes.

So, where did you get it from? Why not a news link? Do you keep old scans ready to backup your argument notwithstanding the facts, or, just post something from a reddit thread?

Can you say it was 2005? I can't find it anywhere.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At least publish something from the last 10 years.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by Corral

Jason Kenney is cut from the same cloth as Harper. Preaches fiscal conservatism to the masses, but lets his buddies eat from the trough endlessly. Completely untrustworthy. Classic power freak.

So many events at the federal level that destroy this guy's credibility in the eyes of anyone who is not a UCP cardholder and who cares about a healthy democracy in this province - just a sample: (1) express disregard for the law in the niqab affair; (2) the Duffy scandal; (3) starving govn't scientists of cash and then putting the muzzle on them (4) directing revenue canada to audit NGOs who challenge govn't policy decisions ... the list is long.

Rural Alberta will always vote for the old white guy - but to pretend he holds views that the majority in this province agree with .. is quite laughable.

Rachel Notley is very pleased tonight with this result.

I am so tired of lefties who still bring up the Duffy "scandal". Trudeaus last vacation cost less than the Duffy scandal and was a mere fraction of the Martin-Chrétien liberals sponsorship fraud.

He will defeat the NDP in he next election. The only seats they will retain will be in Edmonton. We need a fiscal conservative running this province and not an ideological group of nut jobs who are spending like drunk sailors. Rachel Notley is not pleased. She knows she's on her way out.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think Notley's best chance is to get the pipeline west actually built and completed.

But even then I think Kenney wins

If this is what Notley wants, then I think she's dead in the water.

Transmountain is already 9 months delayed, and their latest release was a thinly veiled threat of cancellation. In service date past 2020 at the current moment.

I have no doubt that if the provincial and federal regulators continue their dog and pony show for the next 6 months, they will cancel the pipeline and look elsewhere.

Then I can also be amused at all the posters that think that this would also an "economic decision" just like Energy East.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Kjesse

Care to give examples of this?

Because why? To give a recent example, when Nenshi was called out for being arrogant for his alleged aggressive tendencies, he compared himself to Jason Kenney.

On (1), he was proposing the law, not disregarding it. This a controversial one though for sure. On (2) I can't find what you're talking about, on (3) Trudeau has not followed through like he said he would (one example: https://www.desmog.ca/2016/12/15/can...e-says-science), and is similar on this topic, and (4) its hard to tell what you are alleging here.

If I'm not already considered to be, I'll soon be an old white guy. Is that now a liability politically? I'm 45 by the way. Rachel Notley is white and is 53. Does that work for or against her?

My point about letting his friends feed from the trough - is not about the fact he does that - lets just agree every politician with power does this - its that he preaches fiscal restraint on one hand while opening the taps elsewhere - like every fiscal conservative - he will cut social programs in the name of deficit reduction and spend those millions elsewhere - its all about directing public money to your priorities - I get that - but he - like all other conservatives - simply misleads the public on this.

on (1) - no he actually directed his staff to not allow people to wear face coverings during citizenship ceremonies and expressly told them he didn't give a @#$@#$ about what the law says - his emails are reproduced in the court decisions about that case - the bit about him then proposing a new law to overturn the court decisions ... well we know how that ended for Harper - beaten by junior Trudeau ... I laughed for days.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Regorium

If this is what Notley wants, then I think she's dead in the water.

Transmountain is already 9 months delayed, and their latest release was a thinly veiled threat of cancellation. In service date past 2020 at the current moment.

I have no doubt that if the provincial and federal regulators continue their dog and pony show for the next 6 months, they will cancel the pipeline and look elsewhere.

Then I can also be amused at all the posters that think that this would also an "economic decision" just like Energy East.

The only pipeline that was ever going to built to add capacity for transporting bitumen was Keystone. No Canadian politician has any say on this - Notley or anyone else. Why the US would ever want more bitumen going across the Pacific is beyond me, and incredibly naïve for anyone to think the US would let that happen. Oil is the key to world dominance ... why would you ever let Canada sell more to Asian markets?

[Corral]

Originally Posted by guzzy

I am so tired of lefties who still bring up the Duffy "scandal". Trudeaus last vacation cost less than the Duffy scandal and was a mere fraction of the Martin-Chrétien liberals sponsorship fraud.

He will defeat the NDP in he next election. The only seats they will retain will be in Edmonton. We need a fiscal conservative running this province and not an ideological group of nut jobs who are spending like drunk sailors. Rachel Notley is not pleased. She knows she's on her way out.

Its not about the money - its about Harper and his cronies (say hello Kenney) saying they knew nothing about it ... honest, transparent governing ... yeah whatever LOL.

And if you don't think the Tories spent like drunk sailors for the last 40 years ... then I really can't help you see things straight.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Originally Posted by GGG

Your children don't have any inherent right to privacy.

We'll probably just have to disagree on this. I think ultimately kids are still human beings and while they obviously do not have rights of the same magnitude as adults, they still have rights that need to be protected to some degree and privacy is one of them.

While parents are certainly allowed to do it, do you think it's a good idea for parents to go through their kids phone messages?

The only question is is more harm done to the child by informing the parent.

With the non-informig policy we will eventually have a suicide by a kid in a Alliance group where a parent wasn't informed. With an informing policy we will eventually have a suicide by a kid whose parents shun him as a result or doesn't join out of fear of being shunned. I think there is far from a certain answer of which does less harm.

Now I don't think Kennys position is nuanced at all. It's a straight dog whistle.

Some thoughts:

- If kids are going to commit suicide, I would much rather have it not be as a consequence of a government's decision.

- Not all of the kids joining GSAs are LGBTQ and therefore a kid can lie to their parents. One thing for certain though is that the type of parents that will beat their kid for being LGBTQ will also beat or harass their kid for hanging out with LGBTQ kids.

- The Wildrosers were mad that they couldn't do anything about GSAs and this is their attempt to render them ineffective. This has nothing to do with the mental health of their kids, but has everything to do with homophobia and saving kids from eternal damnation.

- There is no way to reverse coming out of the closet and unfortunately it still has an incredibly significant impact on ones life, which is why it is so important that all people including kids be given the right to do it on their own terms. Coming out as an otherwise straight white male now means that you are publically a part of a group of people that is discriminated against.

- As an addendum to the previous thought, lots of people like to pretend they are socially progressive when they're still very much uncomfortable with LGBTQ people and still make homophobic statements when they feel they have the right audience to make them. Just like so many people are still racists. This isn't just about being discriminated against by a bunch of religious people, but its also about being subtly discriminated against.

[SeeGeeWhy]

I'm concerned about the ongoing devolution of Alberta politics into an urban vs rural divide. Wealth still obviously effects the leadership a great deal in this province as well, I'm not sure this is something that can ever be truly addressed.

What I'd really like to see is partisan players try debating for the position of their opponents every once and a while, we might get conversations less loaded with finger pointing and vitriol, and we may even get some surprising solutions emerge.

[Red Slinger]

I don't know much about Kenney besides his days in Federal government. For those of you that support him and/or voted for him in the UCP leadership, can you tell me why you voted for him and why you want him as Alberta's next premier?