[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[Beninho]

Besides all the Bennett bashing I've done i hope nothing but the best for him and I hope I get to eat crow. Just wish that Janko would be given a fair chance at the #3 center position, a position in which Bennett has not shown to be that great at.

I'm also not bashing the Flames for taking Bennett because hindsight is 20/20, just showing that Bennett should not be getting a free pass considering he's being out produced by many other players in his draft class.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If I get to pick the number of games, sure.

I'm in and would be happy to lose the bet. we need a 20 game sample size minimum though. I actually don;t even care which line Janko plays on.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Leon Draisaitl
David Pastrnak
Nikolaj Ehlers
Aaron Ekblad
William Nylander
Sam Reinhart
Robby Fabbri
Viktor Arvidsson
Dylan Larkin
Nick Ritchie

Bennett is below all these players imo. Until he proves otherwise he was a poor pick in hindsight. Stop the excuses and #freejanko

I completely disagree with your take on Bennett, I believe and the coaches and GM have said as much that they wanted Bennett to focus on his responsibilities as a center. He is not being asked to score goals and the coaches and GM have not indicated they are disappointed in him so your just lighting matches trying to start something that supports your opinion. Bennett does not need to be thrust into first line expectations because we have a first line. There are countless players in the NHL who are goal scorers but asked to play the role that fits the team needs.

Check out Miss Teeks news thread; if you have a chance read what Backlund had to say about why he didn't start playing the way he does until last season and you will get a sense of what they are trying to do with Bennett.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

I'm in and would be happy to lose the bet. we need a 20 game sample size minimum though. I actually don;t even care which line Janko plays on.

No, I said I get to choose the number of games. No minimum.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I hear Bennett has a 6 game pointless streak and no top NHL player has ever done that, especially at a young age.

You want him to sort this out, but why isn't he shooting? I can't find total shot attempts for him, but shots through on goal are 0.04/minute vs 0.1/minute and 0.12/minute over prior two years.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And the season before?

Lol.
"are not demonstrably better"

How does one demonstrate to be better then? Arvidsson's most reason season he scored 31 goals, more than any Flames player and 5 more than the points that Bennett produced. He finished with 61 points to lead his team....the same team that went to the Stanley Cup Finals.

Somehow he hasn't demonstrated he's better? At this point? Like I could normally just ignore one fringe-lunatic's suggestion but multiple CP posters are arguing that Arvidsson..who's followed up his season with 5 points in 6 games so far...is somehow worse than Bennett? This is a new CP low.

Of course the Flames would never in a million years pick Arvidsson over Bennett at the draft, we're talking about a fourth overall and a fourth rounder. But at this point, there's no contest who is better at the sport of hockey.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Is there a different Arviddson that people are getting confused with?

Last season Arviddson had more goals than Bennett had points. 61 points in 80 games. Not a single Flames player outscored him. He's better than Bennett. What the hell am I reading?

Arvidsson is better than Sam Bennett.

He was also eligible for the same draft as Gaudreau(2011), so I am not sure why he is being compared to one of the youngest players from the 2014 draft. If anything he is a prime example for how much patience was needed for even a winger to emerge as a top line forward.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Arvidsson is better than Sam Bennett.

He was also eligible for the same draft as Gaudreau(2011), so I am not sure why he is being compared to one of the youngest players from the 2014 draft. If anything he is a prime example for how much patience was needed for even a winger to emerge as a top line forward.

I never said otherwise, I was the first to point out his overage status. I'm just saying it's the biggest homerism I've ever seen on CP for people like GioforPm to argue that Arvidsson hasn't demonstrated he's better than Bennett at this point.

We're comparing a 61 point player and a 26 point player and we're being serious. Lol CP.

Zack Kassian was closer in point production to Monahan last year than Bennett was to Arvidsson. I think it would be equally ridiculous if an Oiler fan argued that Monahan "was not demonstrably better" than Kassian...

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I never said otherwise, I was the first to point out his overage status. I'm just saying it's the biggest homerism I've ever seen on CP for people like GioforPm to argue that Arvidsson hasn't demonstrated he's better than Bennett at this point.

We're comparing a 61 point player and a 26 point player and we're being serious. Lol CP.

He hasn't demonstated he is better at the same age.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Lol.
"are not demonstrably better"

How does one demonstrate to be better then? Arvidsson's most reason season he scored 31 goals, more than any Flames player and 5 more than the points that Bennett produced. He finished with 61 points to lead his team....the same team that went to the Stanley Cup Finals.

Somehow he hasn't demonstrated he's better? At this point? Like I could normally just ignore one fringe-lunatic's suggestion but multiple CP posters are arguing that Arvidsson..who's followed up his season so far with 5 points in 6 games so far...is somehow worse than Bennett? This is a new CP low.

Of course the Flames would never in a million years pick Arvidsson over Bennett at the draft, we're talking about a fourth overall and a fourth rounder. But at this point, there's no contest who is better at the sport of hockey.

Arvidsson spent time on PP, which Bennett hasn't? Is he on the third line, and therefore getting lower minutes like Bennett? Did he play with Brouwer most of last season?

Who got more points in their first season? According to a simplistic "who got more points" analysis, Bennett was by far the superior player, I guess. So Bennett has had one season better than Arvidsson and one worse. I guess I need more than a two season sample to say players who have NHL points within 20 of each other are better or worse players overall.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He hasn't demonstated he is better at the same age.

That's cool, that's also not the argument being made and pretty stupid because you could say the same for every single player in the league under 24. Like I said, it's disappointed that CP's homerism is legit trying to argue that a 31 goal scorer last season has not shown to be demonstrably better than Sam ####ing Bennett.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I never said otherwise, I was the first to point out his overage status. I'm just saying it's the biggest homerism I've ever seen on CP for people like GioforPm to argue that Arvidsson hasn't demonstrated he's better than Bennett at this point.

We're comparing a 61 point player and a 26 point player and we're being serious. Lol CP.

Zack Kassian was closer in point production to Monahan last year than Bennett was to Arvidsson. I think it would be equally ridiculous if an Oiler fan argued that Monahan "was not demonstrably better" than Kassian...

We are comparing 82 and 63 point players, one of whom is a centre on a team with Monahan and Backlund and another who is RW on a team with Craig Smith and Pontus Aberg. And I never said "at this stage". I am projecting who will be better and neither has demonstrated to me that one will inevitably turn out better than the other.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Arvidsson spent time on PP, which Bennett hasn't? Is he on the third line, and therefore getting lower minutes like Bennett? Did he play with Brouwer most of last season?

If Bennett was capable of putting up 31 goals and only didn't because he didn't get PP time...are you suggesting that Glen Gulutzan is just a terrible coach? How do you not put out a 30+ goal scorer on the PP when your highest goal scorer of the season was under that?

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who got more points in their first season? According to a simplistic "who got more points" analysis, Bennett was by far the superior player, I guess.

I would have argued that, prior to last season, Arvidsson had not demonstrated that he was better than Sam Bennett. Yes of course. There's this new concept called time though and things change after events take place.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So Bennett has had one season better than Arvidsson and one worse. I guess I need more than a two season sample to say players who have NHL points within 20 of each other are better or worse players overall.

The difference is that one player became an absolute stud. Leading his Stanley Cup Finalist team in points and being a top 20 goal scorer in the entire league.

The other put up 13 goals.

But you're right. They are currently exactly at the same level of hockey.

[GioforPM]

Michael Backlund had 10 goals and 25 points in his second season, 2010-11. Sam Gagner had played 15 goals and 42 points. Obviously the demonstrably better player.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

If Bennett was capable of putting up 31 goals and only didn't because he didn't get PP time...are you suggesting that Glen Gulutzan is just a terrible coach? How do you not put out a 30+ goal scorer on the PP when your highest goal scorer of the season was under that?



I would have argued that, prior to last season, Arvidsson had not demonstrated that he was better than Sam Bennett. Yes of course. There's this new concept called time though and things change after events take place.


The difference is that one player became an absolute stud. Leading his Stanley Cup Finalist team in points and being a top 20 goal scorer in the entire league.

The other put up 13 goals.

But you're right. They are currently exactly at the same level of hockey.

You keep wanting to move the goalposts. I say that their careers thus far have not demonstrated that one is going to be the better player than the other.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Your exact quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A lot of stretches from that dumb list ( three of whom went ahead of Bennett anyway). Ritchie, Reinhart, Fabbri, Arviddson are not demonstrably better than Bennett and to the extent they have a few more points, have in many cases had more PP time, and more ice time in general, because their teams weren't as deep at their position.

So, the question remains. How does one demonstrate being better if it isn't being the better hockey player?

I'm bowing out. This is easily the stupidest argument I've been involved in on CP. A 31 goal scorer hasn't demonstrated he is better than a 13 goal scorer, stated by multiple posters? Okay guys, drink that kool-aid. And for the record, I hope Bennett can approach the level of Arvidsson, but there's simply a point when you're comparing two players that what was actually happening on the ice is what matters when you talk about who is better. Can it change? Sure. We've seen a lot of late bloomers through the years. That doesn't mean that Monahan hasn't proven to be better than Shinkaruk though either at this point even if Shinkaruk becomes an Art Ross winner in 2019...

I honestly feel like people didn't pay attention to Nashville in the regular season, didn't have name-recognition of Arvidsson and posted without knowledge before all of a sudden realizing how big of a stud he was last season. And decided that they somehow wanted this to be a hill to die on, I mean nothing else makes sense.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I completely disagree with your take on Bennett, I believe and the coaches and GM have said as much that they wanted Bennett to focus on his responsibilities as a center. He is not being asked to score goals and the coaches and GM have not indicated they are disappointed in him so your just lighting matches trying to start something that supports your opinion. Bennett does not need to be thrust into first line expectations because we have a first line. There are countless players in the NHL who are goal scorers but asked to play the role that fits the team needs.

Check out Miss Teeks news thread; if you have a chance read what Backlund had to say about why he didn't start playing the way he does until last season and you will get a sense of what they are trying to do with Bennett.

Do you think we need our third line centre to score 15 goals and 40ish points for us to be a team that contends down the stretch? I do. And, based on what I've seen from Bennett so far, that is unlikely to happen. I hope I am wrong.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No, I said I get to choose the number of games. No minimum.

lol. not much of a bet then, is it?

[GioforPM]

Here's another thought experiment: Arvidsson plays top line minutes as the RW to Forsberg and Johansen. Put Bennett on wing with Monahan and Gaudreau and I wonder if he gets a few more points. Whether or not it's what's best for the team.

I'm not saying Bennett is better. I'm saying I don't have enough info yet to tell.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

lol. not much of a bet then, is it?

So you're out? OK.