Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[nik-]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So nevermind the actual idea...it wasnt on glossy enough paper for you?

That's a good way to judge a project.

You don't think the CSEC was taking that seriously?

Well then, nothing left to say.

Come on now.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's funny because if the argument is "substance, not style", CalgaryNEXT is still a failure, albeit not an abject failure. But when you're trying to extract hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars, you can't be easily upstaged by a fifth grader in terms of presentation.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by surferguy

If this is the true ask, does it make a move more tangible for the Flames if they can find a new location that will capitulate to them and give them their ask? They would make way more money with all of the real estate etc.

Which city is going to give them that though?

Seattle has already made a deal for their arena redevelopment with a private investors group. Kansas City's arena has been open for years and the area around the arena is already built up. Quebec City's arena is built and from what I can tell, it doesn't appear to be in a location ripe for urban redevelopment.

San Diego? Baltimore? Both large cities with old arenas and no NBA or NHL teams, but they already used their baseball stadiums as their drivers for urban renewal.

Austin, Texas is the largest city in the US with no major league sports teams. They do have the University of Texas though, and a newish (but small) arena where the Texas Stars play. It also already has a pretty vibrant downtown from my understanding.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So nevermind the actual idea...it wasnt on glossy enough paper for you?

That's a good way to judge a project.

You don't think the CSEC was taking that seriously?

Well then, nothing left to say.

They half arsed the entire presentation. Almost like they didn’t want to invest enough time because they knew it was a flyer. Correct costs? Nope traffic considerations? Nope city buy in? Nope

Then held out their hands and wanted a billion dollars for.

I do project proposals all the time. I would not have gone to the stakeholders for buy in on even a six figure project with their level of preparedness. It was embarrassing.

It showed a lack of professionalism, one that rightfully threw up flags that these guys weren’t serious or were not qualified to actually execute.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So nevermind the actual idea...it wasnt on glossy enough paper for you?

That's a good way to judge a project.

You don't think the CSEC was taking that seriously?

Well then, nothing left to say.

The idea was ####, the fact they didn't even spend the money on 'glossy paper' just shows how little they truly believed in it as well (or it just shows they're incompetent, and I don't want to fork over city money to incompetent people either. I do enough of that on my own). No desire to truly try and sell it.

If you're going to try and sell me a #### sandwich at least throw a garnish on the plate. Make me believe you actually think I should eat it.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

They half arsed the entire presentation. Almost like they didn’t want to invest enough time because they knew it was a flyer. Correct costs? Nope traffic considerations? Nope city buy in? Nope

Then held out their hands and wanted a billion dollars for.

I do project proposals all the time. I would not have gone to the stakeholders for buy in on even a six figure project with their level of preparedness. It was embarrassing.

It showed a lack of professionalism, one that rightfully threw up flags that these guys weren’t serious or were not qualified to actually execute.

OK, say you are right in your assumption that it was all a giant smokescreen.

What was their plan then?

[corporatejay]

Youre right. It's just business. Then let's stop playing the heart strings card and ditch the Filipino lady at the hospice story. Because thats making it personal.


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[fotiou22]

Bill Smith, who has yet to articulate a single specific idea in this campaign, is now ahead in the polls. On top of everything else, he refuses to release his donor list. In the end, power and greed always win.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by fotiou22

Bill Smith, who has yet to articulate a single specific idea in this campaign, is now ahead in the polls. On top of everything else, he refuses to release his donor list. In the end, power and greed always win.

Pretty sure he'll never release that list because I'd bet anything you'd find the Calgary Flames on it.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Pretty sure he'll never release that list because I'd bet anything you'd find the Calgary Flames on it.

Provincial law says donor lists must be disclosed by March 1, problem is that is well after the election.

[monkeyman]

The Flames are going to need more than just a new mayor to vote in a new arena. any indication if they're backing specific people in key wards? I'd imagine they'd target Druh's ward and ward 6 since Pootmans is not running. which other wards do you guys think?

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Provincial law says donor lists must be disclosed by March 1, problem is that is well after the election.

Then I guess on March 1 we'll all see that the Flames were on that list!

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

The Flames are going to need more than just a new mayor to vote in a new arena. any indication if they're backing specific people in key wards? I'd imagine they'd target Druh's ward and ward 6 since Pootmans is not running. which other wards do you guys think?

This is true. I do think Nenshi losing will make some councillors who may have been leaning towards no arena change their mind for fear of being ousted themselves next time around.

Make no mistake, I think the Flames taking Nenshi on with their announcement they're pulling away from the table will be a big reason why he lost this election (if he does lose; 17 points down is pretty tough to come back from, though).

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

CSEC is eyeing more than an arena

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...+Article+Links

God, that Nenshi is so arrogant!

[fotiou22]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Pretty sure he'll never release that list because I'd bet anything you'd find the Calgary Flames on it.

Bill Smith was president of the PC party that took a $430,000 cheque from Darryl Katz in 2012, when Redford was especially desperate. This isn't his first rodeo.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK, say you are right in your assumption that it was all a giant smokescreen.

What was their plan then?

Their plan was that the presentation was not necessary and/or a formality. That we would swoon and sign the blank cheque because they're the Flames and without the Flames we might as well be Yellowknife.

That was their entire plan.

[1991 Canadian]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

This is true. I do think Nenshi losing will make some councillors who may have been leaning towards no arena change their mind for fear of being ousted themselves next time around.

Make no mistake, I think the Flames taking Nenshi on with their announcement they're pulling away from the table will be a big reason why he lost this election (if he does lose; 17 points down is pretty tough to come back from, though).

Almost as important as making the arena an election issue, the Flames can rally a lot of money towards the candidate of their choosing.

I don't think we'll see Ken King or Murray Edwards on the Bill Smith donor list, but I can guarantee we'll see a lot of Flames partners on the list 6 months from now.

$5000 from Molson. $5000 from Jewels by Maximes. $5000 from GEC Architecture. $5000 from PCL Construction. Etc...

Going forward, I think the Calgary economy is going to be a lot flatter than it has been in the past. We might come to regret not fighting harder for a city friendly deal.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Almost as important as making the arena an election issue, the Flames can rally a lot of money towards the candidate of their choosing.

I don't think we'll see Ken King or Murray Edwards on the Bill Smith donor list, but I can guarantee we'll see a lot of Flames partners on the list 6 months from now.

$5000 from Molson. $5000 from Jewels by Maximes. $5000 from GEC Architecture. $5000 from PCL Construction. Etc...

Going forward, I think the Calgary economy is going to be a lot flatter than it has been in the past. We might come to regret not fighting harder for a city friendly deal.

I do think that certain firms, partnerships, and business will have a vested financial interest in seeing a candidate who will try and push for the Flames vision of the deal, especially construction etc.

I don't think a family owned jewelry store or a massive global brewery such as Molson-Coors falls into that category outside of them wanting to sell their products and services to existing clients.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Their plan was that the presentation was not necessary and/or a formality. That we would swoon and sign the blank cheque because they're the Flames and without the Flames we might as well be Yellowknife.

That was their entire plan.

If you actually believe that....well OK then.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If you actually believe that....well OK then.

Ah the 26 dimensional checkers argument. OK then.