Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Split98]

So is this going to be what the 11:30MT press conference will be about?

Announcing a deal has been reached? Great.
More posturing and getting my hopes up over a Jagr/Iginla deal? I hate you forever.

The thing I hate most about Flames ownership is their abuse of fan's excitement surrounding their team. Playoffs and season starts have been their platform lately and it demonstrates a pretty terrible commitment to the on-ice product.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Does anyone know if this is being streamed somewhere? I want to watch this

http://www.cbc.ca/news/calgary-flame...281287?cmp=rss

Sportsnet960 will also carry it live.

[Flash Walken]

Pretty ugly to paint the board with such broad strokes.

Considering this is a message board about the team I find it hard to believe the majority are looking for an arena deal that is unfair to the team.

Mind bottling but most of us actually like the flames and want them to be successful.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Listen, the Edmonton was an absolute disaster. Katz basically put up 50 million of his own capital for a 600 million project. That is absolutely ridiculous. if that deal is "fair" to you, then you and I have a very different definition of fair.

Finally you get it!!

Other people have different opinions and that doesnt make them shills, trolls or anything else.

[RM14]

“The city somehow needs to share in the upside if we want to share in the costs,” said Nenshi

I wonder if they want to share in the loss years as well?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think NewEras position is the Edmonton deal set the market and Calgary if they want to keep the flames Needs to have its deal approach the dumpster fire in the North. He is "willing" to pay close to that price to keep them.

So fair to him becomes better than a dumpster fire. It's a reasonable position to take, not a shill.

Thanks. I think?

I'll just point to longsuffering's poll to identify where I sit as far as investment on both sides go. I'm a rule of thirds guy, its just the rules on the thirds where the issues need to be ironed out.

[Toonage]

If they (King, ownership) are smart they will use this as an opportunity to "re-open" negotiations and try to correct their current public persona.

If.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No video but this will provide the audio.

http://player.sportsnet960.ca/

I hate Jim Rome.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I'm sorry, but NewEra and IAmNotKenKing are a totally different breed than simply having a different opinion. Estrada has a different opinion and I find his takes to mostly be fine, if misguided (IMO of course). NewEra, who doesn't even live in Calgary and seemingly looks for every reason to bash the city, is actually a decent poster outside these types of threads, but he's so absurd in this thread it's pretty sad actually. And he pot shots and goes after posters as much as anyone.

In some ways I'd kinda like to make a deal, me and the other posters who are on the other side (but it's wrong to say we want no city contribution) will stay out of these threads if NewEra and IAmNotKenKng do too. I think that's actually fair. But when they make the posts they does, they're basically quasi trolling.

I'm sure that perception has nothing to do with the fact that you guys are in violent agreement in the Trump thread and you disagree here

[jammies]

Originally Posted by New Era

My position is a fair deal for all, which is not what the majority of this board want.

No, the majority of the board just has a different definition of "fair".

[mikephoen]

If they flames were smart, they would take at least a day to craft their response and make sure they don't come off as arrogant schmucks for the second time in a week...

Obviously they schedule their press conference for a couple hours later. KK will probably just march around the stage with a "Bill Smith for mayor" placard.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You guys don't think they saw all this coming?

Back away from negotiations in a splashy way by walking the commissioner out (their biggest mistake in my mind) and then what? They expected a megalomaniac mayor to bite his tongue and not come out with details?

Nenshi loves to talk, they knew he's be shooting back in a variety of ways. King et al have been frustrated for months at the slow pace of the negotiations, this gets it right out in the open which had to have been their plan.

To each their own on what public money should be included but regardless of the landing point I think the CSEC wants to see this moving and not being snail paced through endless private meetings.

You really believe they saw this coming?

I can't understand why King would see this coming and still continue to make the Flames and himself look like fools.

I can understand them trying to tweak the deal a little bit but this offer is more than fair and they come out looking really bad when they walk away.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

No wonder the Flames didn't want the details released.

They come out looking really bad and likely have helped Nenshi in the election and in the eye of Calgarians over this arena issue.

That deal is more than fair.

I think its best to see what the Flames and King say at this press conference.

Until we can see and compare the two positions we don't know what the Flames position really is.

I think we all need to be patient and see what happens at 11:30.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think what the issue with is that the Flames see the funding model that Nenshi released as 2/3 Flames and 1/3 City. Let's face it, the Flames are more than likely going to gouge us fans with increased pricing. Imposing a ticket tax above and beyond what the market dictates won't work, so of course the Flames will be 'eating' that ticket tax themselves.

Of course they are not going to come out in public and say as much. They of course do not want the fans to think at this point as to how much more the costs will be for tickets. I do think that is how the Flames are seeing this, and they are wanting the city to fund a larger portion of it.

As for the infrastructure costs, isn't this a normal thing for developers? Don't developers usually have to pay for access roads, utility connections and so on, as part of their costs of development? I can't imagine a new C-Train station going up that will provide direct access for the building will come cheap.

I think the way the deal is structured is fair from a tax payer standpoint (sort of - I still think that public dollars shouldn't be used to help a for-profit corporation), and at the end of the day I can probably guess that the Flames will be generating a lot of revenue here if the structure stays at "property tax being paid, but Flames get all revenues".

Really, what I find disgusting is that the Flames don't want to take a loss (in fact, seem fixated on making a good profit here) and are adamant that the city takes a net loss on their 'investment'.

As a tax payer, I FOR SURE want the City's 'investment' returned. How the Flames seem so set on ensuring that the city completely donate cash to help them make more money is beyond me. This is the sticking point to me here. Flames will make more money here on this deal, not to mention will have a substantially higher valuation in their net worth. To do so on the backs of the tax payers is what bothers me.

I don't care what the funding model looks like, as long as the city recoups the investment and interest on the 30 year (hopefully longer) term.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Pretty ugly to paint the board with such broad strokes.

Considering this is a message board about the team I find it hard to believe the majority are looking for an arena deal that is unfair to the team.

Mind bottling but most of us actually like the flames and want them to be successful.

what was ugly about what I said?

This was my rather innocuous statement

You don't see this site as having a lean towards the city in this debate?

Hell I've read many comments about questioning their intent to remain fans in all this. So yeah I think the majority is heavily in the city's court on this debate. I've ready many anti ownership comments in the past few days and very few anti Nenshi.

As I've said for two years I think they both have been a mess.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Are you asking me to go back and count them? It's an estimate. You don't see this site as having a lean towards the city in this debate?

Either way at least you responded instead of just thanking every post that takes a pot shot at me.

I think part of the problem is you've convinced yourself that you're totally a moderate, right in the middle guy on this issue. You seem to think because that you throw in a "both sides" in a post, this means you're totally unbiased.
A lot of people have pointed out to you the fallacy of this, using the things you've posted, yet you continue to think this way.

It slants your entire perspective on this issue and as a result the posters who are arguing both stances. It's actually kind of disappointing.

Yes, the site has a lean in this debate. And guess what, off this site, on other sites, even sites directed at Flames fans, it's the same thing. You don't think that consistency around this issue shows something?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by RM14

I wonder if they want to share in the loss years as well?

This could be negotiated, but I'm sure they would be fine with it. Why wouldn't they? Years with a loss will be few and far between.

[Phaneufenstein]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

"We've agreed to build the new arena with the City's proposal, and by the way, here's Jaromir Jagr."

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think its best to see what the Flames and King say at this press conference.

Until we can see and compare the two positions we don't know what the Flames position really is.

I think we all need to be patient and see what happens at 11:30.

I might be mistaken but I believe the Flames offer was already leaked and it wasn't good.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Split98

I hate Jim Rome.

LOL...i understand but they will be interrupting him at 11:30