[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[RedHawk12]

Pretty disappointing news, to put it lightly. Feels like us Flames fans and Calgarians in general are in a no win situation.

As much as we would love to get a new arena, I think that the fact is, there's still a large percentage of Calgarians that don't really care about the Flames, sports or getting a new sporting complex in general. Sucks for them to be saddled with a tax burden for something they might never use or enjoy, especially when they're working their behinds off every day.

It pisses me off getting the impression that at the end of the day, it's just about profits for the owners. Less money out of their pockets, more out of everyone elses. And if they don't get what they want, they'll just relocate. Pisses me off even more that Bettman supports them. He probably want the Flames out of Canada and into the US.

Kinda would like the owners to give more ####s about the fans and the team, and not just profits. Maybe they do and this is just all posturing like many say. Still seem like a ###### thing to do though.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by dino7c

there are things that can't be measured by economic studies

Your stance on this should make you understand why Murray Edwards is a billionaire and you/I are not.

Either you are accumulating wealth or contributing to another's. Do you want to contribute to the wealth of Flames ownership any more than you have to?

Building a new arena for them is pocket-change....and that's even if they had to write a cheque for $400M cash and had to declare it as a sunk cost.

Why are you so concerned about the City of Calgary and it's status as a world-class city?

Shouldn't the owners share in your concern?

Do you think they are as concerned as you seem to be?

Please understand this.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That Garth Brooks series of concerts brought 42 million alone to the local economy in Edmonton. 104th Ave and 104th street have seen huge boosts in business. That arena has done wonders. I was downtown yesterday and it had the same vibe as Stephen Ave after work.

Yep meanwhile Calgarians keep laughing about how they got screwed while driving out our own team. Even though the exact opposite is happening before our eyes with Edmonton turning into the "have" city in this province and Calgary moves towards "have not". When Edmontonians laugh that we don't have a team we can always come back with; "Well we have economic studies!".

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep it's pretty amazing what's going on there. That's why I believe the people that think the city got hosed are talking out of their rear ends. If anything Edmonton has been showing up Calgary for a while now as it's being run by people interested in making the city better while Calgary is being run by people more interested in personal agendas and images.

Beyond the arena project - name three ways Edmonton is 'showing up' Calgary.

Calgary is better in almost every conceivable way.

[dino7c]

Why wouldn't Bettman support the owners? It is literally his job

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Beyond the arena project - name three ways Edmonton is 'showing up' Calgary.

Calgary is better in almost every conceivable way.

Edmonton is closing the gap fast. If you don't believe that you are living under a rock. A lot of Calgary's advantages rest with it's geographical location and that's not going to change but Edmonton is becoming more vibrant.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I don't believe that 2 out of 3 people in Calgary have a public library card, obviously you do. Are you >66% of the population?
You can shove the fork.

Sorry, it's 66% of households use the public library. ~30%of residents have a library card.

The rest of my stats are accurate though.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep meanwhile Calgarians keep laughing about how they got screwed while driving out our own team. Even though the exact opposite is happening before our eyes with Edmonton turning into the "have" city in this province and Calgary moves towards "have not". When Edmontonians laugh that we don't have a team we can always come back with; "Well we have economic studies!".

Edmonton invested $500+ million on that area of downtown... of course it's doing well. The point is, that same revitalization could have been done with somewhere around a third of the money.

[Table 5]

I went to vibrant super fun Edmonton last summer and I was amazed how much of an 80s time warp it still was.

[nik-]

Hey guys, is this the thread where we throw out a bunch of vague, undefinable benefits?

[robaur]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep meanwhile Calgarians keep laughing about how they got screwed while driving out our own team. Even though the exact opposite is happening before our eyes with Edmonton turning into the "have" city in this province and Calgary moves towards "have not". When Edmontonians laugh that we don't have a team we can always come back with; "Well we have economic studies!".

I don't understand how your viewpoint has anything to do with how funding for a new arena should be allocated between the stakeholders. It's just an emotional viewpoint.

The Flames ownership group is more than rich enough to build a new arena without any expectation of a return. They wouldn't even miss that money.

I don't remember the last time a guy worth more than $5M worried about spending $300K on a new Ferrari. Most of these guys just go into a dealership and drop a cheque on the table.

Why can't Flames ownership do that with this arena? The money is insignificant to them. If they were such nice people, they would just take whatever the city offered them as a bonus in terms of infrastructure costs etc.

I spend $15K a season on season tickets. Do the Flames subsidize my costs if the team under-performs? No, they don't. They're a business entity and should be treated as such.

[drewtastic]

As a season ticket holder, I am aware that I have little to no entitlement to complain about team decisions and performance, especially because I CHOOSE to spend my money on tickets and my time watching games. I am free to end this business relationship at any time I see fit.

However, I do believe that I AM entitled to say, as both a season ticket holder and citizen of this city, that I find it incredibly disrespectful and arrogant of any professional team to think that it's a good public relations strategy to enlist the assistance of its league's commissioner, in a direct attempt to not-so-subtly influence voters' choices in a municipal election.

I am also embarrassed for Bettman himself, thinking that it is his place in any way shape or form to even hint at suggesting how Calgarians should vote.

I recognize the Flames' contributions to our city, I want a new arena as a fan, but I believe that the Flames rightfully deserve to be raked over the coals for this poor decision.

[robaur]

Originally Posted by drewtastic

As a season ticket holder, I am aware that I have little to no entitlement to complain about team decisions and performance, especially because I CHOOSE to spend my money on tickets and my time watching games. I am free to end this business relationship at any time I see fit.

However, I do believe that I AM entitled to say, as both a season ticket holder and citizen of this city, that I find it incredibly disrespectful and arrogant of any professional team to think that it's a good public relations strategy to enlist the assistance of its league's commissioner, in a direct attempt to not-so-subtly influence voters' choices in a municipal election.

I am also embarrassed for Bettman himself, thinking that it is his place in any way shape or form to even hint at suggesting how Calgarians should vote.

I recognize the Flames' contributions to our city, I want a new arena as a fan, but I believe that the Flames rightfully deserve to be raked over the coals for this poor decision.

Thank you for your well laid-out post.

As a STH, I agree with this post 100%.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Edmonton invested $500+ million on that area of downtown... of course it's doing well. The point is, that same revitalization could have been done with somewhere around a third of the money.

I call BS on that. There's no way the amount of civic pride I felt from Edmontonians would be replicated without that rink. Maybe they clean that neighbourhood up cheaper, but it would be nowhere near as vibrant. Go up to Edmonton for an event and see for yourself. You'll be surprised. The last time I stayed at the Sutton Place i thought I was going to get stabbed. when I went twice this summer it was people everywhere or having a good time.

Take a look at Eau Claire here in Calgary if you think slapping some
Buildings and condos up will turn an area around like a rink and entertainment district will.

[Calgary4LIfe]

This ownership group lost a heck of a lot of character when Hotchkiss passed. The community really misses him still, and now without a doubt the fanbase really misses him.

This was nothing short of a threat by the ownership group, and I more than ever hope that city council - even if a totally brand new one for argument's sake - hold fast to their position.

Sure, if the Flames move, it will suck as a long time fan. There is no question. However, and speaking as a fan who has long defended this ownership group, this ownership group now stinks something rotten. CalgaryNext sure seemed like a terribly thought-out proposal, CSEC has dragged their feet for years on this, and now they want to stomp their feet and pout?

Good luck in Seattle if it comes to it. I know that the move will leave such a disgusting feeling in my stomach, that I will probably even start cheering for Vancouver when they play against them. It will suck to have to cheer for another team in the west if it comes down to it, but so be it.

I have lost a lot of respect for this team today. I only hope that I don't read a bunch of tweets from Calgary Flames players on it, as it just will further my distaste at the moment from a group of players I thoroughly like.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by dino7c

People can give me all the studies they want, I dropped over 2k in Edmonton this summer for concerts because the venues in Calgary aren't up to par.

Nobody seemed too worried about the $7 it cost them

That project is single handedly revitalizing that downtown, none of my edmontonian friends give two flying ####s about the city not fully recouping its investment (as opposed to all those other city projects like libraries and such which are sooooo profitable). Just like how no one here missed the 30 million we spent on the dome in the 80s.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Edmonton is closing the gap fast. If you don't believe that you are living under a rock. A lot of Calgary's advantages rest with it's geographical location and that's not going to change but Edmonton is becoming more vibrant.

No it's not closing the gap.

People used to say Edmonton was this incredible cultural location - so many festivals. It's Calgary that's surpassed Edmonton on this front.

Our food scene is better.

Our downtown, surrounding inner city and general urban vibe is better and improving rapidly (17th, Kensington, Inglewood, Mission, Stephen Ave, Riverwalk, etc) is waaay better. Whyte ave and...Jasper? Our big urban revitalization efforts - particularly East Village have been way more successful than say their first similar effort (where they mimicked the funding mechanism we pioneeered in Canada) The Quarters.

Our LRT is far more extensive (and functional). They copied, two years later, exactly the cycle track network implementation we did.

I could go on. E=NG.

That's not to say we should rest on our laurels, but we hardly are. Getting a fair arena deal does not equal not having the desire to have an arena (and vibrant district around it). Also, no one is saying Edmonton's arena district isn't helping their sorry downtown, it is. But I think Calgary's and the Mayor's ambitions - Arena, BMO expansion, Green Line, Olympic Plaza, Arts Commons expansion, Innovation centre, Victoria Park rejuvenation are actually MORE ambitious.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I went to vibrant super fun Edmonton last summer and I was amazed how much of an 80s time warp it still was.

If you went this summer in the ice district I guarantee you the difference would
Blow you away now that everything is up and running.

Rest of the city is still a time warp though.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Take a look at Eau Claire here in Calgary if you think slapping some
Buildings and condos up will turn an area around like a rink and entertainment district will.

An entertainment district is exactly what the City is pushing for. This is not a debate about wanting an arena, it's a debate about the funding model.

[nik-]

You can't put a price on civic pride.