[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Well.... if that's the case lets start campaigning for new owners even richer than Murray & Company to buy them out and build us a rink with private money.

I nominate Garrett Camp. Born a Calgarian, went to the UofC. Net worth 7B USD.

Nobody is going to step up and buy the team without a prospective arena deal in place.

Why would they?

And if the Flames move the cost of bringing another NHL team to Calgary would be an entirely tax payer funded arena.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The Legacy of good Nenshi has done far outweighs any foibles about a private sports team. He will be elected again, and has been fantastic as our mayor - I challenge anyone else to personally do a better job than he has in his position as Calgary mayor. Bill Smith should not be elected simy because he might get along better with sports team owners.

If the Flames leave under his watch, that becomes his legacy whether his fanboys on here want to admit it or not. And I say that as someone that's voted for him twice but won't be in October.

[Passe La Puck]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Given the risk and amount of the original investment...it's not that good either. Rule of 72 would suggest an annual return of about 4.5% to triple initial investment in that timeframe.

Not a junk bond by any stretch, but that's a low rate of return.

Both sides have a point. It's not a venture that the Flames cannot afford to finance on their own. It's also a venture that the city of Calgary should avoid buying into.

Sporting Team ownership is a L U X U R Y. The fact that it comes with a not-completely-horrible return on investment is a nice perk. The fact that this is apparently used as an excuse for public subsidies is inexplicable.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I don't see the 6.2 million visits you speak of anywhere. I did see the 16 million items used and that's spiffy. Now thanks for pointing out the statistics for all of calgary. If you could find ones relating to the specific library I mentioned I would be most pleased. Guess what it doesnt. This new library isn't magically going to produce an additional 6.2 million visitors.

If reading comprehension is difficult for you I would be glad to find a book for you to read. For free. From home.

The total visits is from Calgary Economic Development.

There are branch stats to 2013 from the Canadian Urban Libraries Council. The number of branch visits from 2010 for the W.R. Castell Central Library was 796,461. 2011 was a bit lower at 723,234. 2013 was 574,487 but the library was closed for months because of the flood. 2015 and on saw a large increase in overall library usage in the city as it is now free for a membership. The Central Library is the most visited branch of all the Calgary branches.

It is safe to assume that today, the number of people who use the central library > than the 750,000 people you napkin'd out.

My reading comprehension is fine. On par with my ability to put together a reasoned data driven argument.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Why is it we want new owners? Ours spend to the cap in a smaller NHL market while giving a lot back to the community. I think we are pretty lucky to have The owners we have.

Eric Francis mentioned the same thing on the radio today.

Funny, all this time I thought that was charity. Guess it was just an investment hey?

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

So the debate were having is between a public building everyone can use for free but few do (I don't believe that 6.2 million figure and even if it is true I'd like to see a breakdown of how they came to it, it sounds questionable) or a private facility which promotes large amounts of community involvement and inclusivity.

Do you ever think that maybe those who can't afford to attend flames games still enjoy watching the team on TV? Maybe they enjoy reading about them in the paper or online? Without a team here, these same people you're championing for will lose it all the same if they leave (I highly doubt they're going anywhere).

If you still aren't convinced of the money pissed away with this library what would you do in this situation then. If you could go back in time and either spend the money on a library or cleaning up the creosote soaked land that's leeching into the bow river? I get if you don't agree that an arena is the best use of money, but to defend another library of all useless places is something I'll never understand.

I support a public contribution to the arena. These are false dichotomies. One can support libraries, arenas, environmental cleanup all the same. We spread our priorities for projects and services around all the time. Transit gets money, roads get money, parks get money, recreation facilities get money, public art gets money, even.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I hate Edmonton and thinks it's a pretty crappy city. That said, I was up
There for both GNR and Metallica and stayed across from that new ice district and downtown was light and day different from when I was there 3-4 years ago. For once in my life, I was actually jealous of Edmonton. The amount of new pubs and restaurants around that area and the revitalization of th existing ones kind of Blew me away.

Yep it's pretty amazing what's going on there. That's why I believe the people that think the city got hosed are talking out of their rear ends. If anything Edmonton has been showing up Calgary for a while now as it's being run by people interested in making the city better while Calgary is being run by people more interested in personal agendas and images.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Passe La Puck

Are you personally >33% of Calgary's population? Put down the fork!

I don't believe that 2 out of 3 people in Calgary have a public library card, obviously you do. Are you >66% of the population?
You can shove the fork.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yep. That's why I believe the people that think the city got hosed are talking out of their rear ends. If anything Edmonton has been showing up Calgary for a while now as it's being run by people interested in making the city better while Calgary is being run by people more interested in personal agendas and images.

People can give me all the studies they want, I dropped over 2k in Edmonton this summer for concerts because the venues in Calgary aren't up to par.

Nobody seemed too worried about the $7 it cost them

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I don't believe that 2 out of 3 people in Calgary have a public library card, obviously you do. Are you >66% of the population?
You can shove the fork.

There is ZERO chance 2 in 3 have one...come on now

I just asked my hockey team and like 2 of 17 had one

[Tinordi]

That massive contact Sportsnet signed with the NHL would be reopened if the Flames moved. Would be the perfect opportunity for SN to get out from under that white elephant too.

NHL knows this.

The more you just sit down and think about it, the more empty the threats ring. Anyone who's actually peddling these relocation myths is either dishonest or ignorant.

[nik-]

Personal anecdotes > numerous economic studies

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The reality is that this isn't about bending over. It's about how bad a city wants to keep its team. People talk about the bad deal in Edmonton but I don't see any indication of the hardships going on right now up there because they put money into an arena. In fact things have never been more positive up there in regards to downtown development and vibe. The bottom line is that if the mayor and this city want to to pound on their chests and say; "See we showed them. We stuck it to those billionaires and didn't cave in. We are a smart progressive city." then they also have to live with the indignity of being the largest Canadian city without an NHL franchise.

You're right, maybe we as a municipality should offer something like a 1/3 of the costs, free land - suggest continued negotiations. If only.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

That massive contact Sportsnet signed with the NHL would be reopened if the Flames moved. Would be the perfect opportunity for SN to get out from under that white elephant too.

NHL knows this.

The more you just sit down and think about it, the more empty the threats ring. Anyone who's actually peddling these relocation myths is either dishonest or ignorant.

Not a chance. Flames are irrelevant in the broadcasting scheme of things. I bet the ratings wouldn't even drop that much in Alberta if Calgary didn't have a team because people won't stop watching hockey on tv.

[Ozy_Flame]

That Garth Brooks series of concerts brought 42 million alone to the local economy in Edmonton. 104th Ave and 104th street have seen huge boosts in business. That arena has done wonders. I was downtown yesterday and it had the same vibe as Stephen Ave after work.

[robaur]

This thread shows why the top 1% control a vast majority of the world's wealth.

Please stop catering to the 1%. They are not your friend.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

That massive contact Sportsnet signed with the NHL would be reopened if the Flames moved. Would be the perfect opportunity for SN to get out from under that white elephant too.

NHL knows this. The more you just sit down and think about it, the more empty the threats ring. Anyone who's actually peddling these myths is either dishonest or ignorant.

This has been discussed and it's a relatively weak argument. Nobody is privy to the language in the contract but I'm sure the NHL fully considered that a team could be added or subtracted over the duration of the deal. I don't think for a second that they would stand in the way of a team relocating because of the TV deal as they could easily offset that with moving the Coyotes to Quebec who is waiting with open arms. That contract is great and all but the NHL survived fine without it and they would do fine with a little less change seeing they would be gaining a large US market.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by nik-

Personal anecdotes > numerous economic studies

there are things that can't be measured by economic studies

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

Personal anecdotes > numerous economic studies

Having and NHL team > not having an NHL team just ask Winnipeg.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dino7c

there are things that can't be measured by economic studies

Things like the economic impact of municipal funding of sports stadiums?