[Rumour] UPD: Friedman: Flames discussing 1st, pick, and prospect for Hamonic

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The point is that calgary had ZERO 30 goal scorers last year, and Monahan is the only one who at the moment can realistically be counted on to score in that vicinity next year.

Why is this even a conversation? Calgary only had two TWENTY goal scorers last year, let alone 30.

Agree to disagree. Gaudreau scoring thirty is completely realistic. Hockey fans have short memories.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think we should expect 25, and 30 from Monahan. I think Tkachuk will be a threat to score 30 when he hits his prime. The Flames's strength in scoring last year came in balance—reliable offensive producers on three lines and scoring threats from multiple defensemen. When there are twelve players who can score +10 goals on the roster, having multiple 30-goal scorers is not as important.

I think you're right. But I'm still not convinced that 5 on 5 offense is where it needs to be for Flames to contend. Ducks really shut them down in playoffs particularly when the games were on the line. But not suggesting a big money forward is the answer.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Defensively they are already pretty good if they get decent goaltending.... we saw that last season.

Obviously a strong partner for Brodie is a must have. Beyond that though they can muddle through with cheaper journeymen or some of the kids on the farm.

They need to add some offense somehow though. Whether its a pure offensive guy up front or getting some more scoring from the blueline (which is hard to count on)

This formula was shown to be the case pretty clearly in the SC final. Niether team was top 10 in GA last year....both were in the top 10 in GF however.

I don't really see the need to add offence. I think the improvement comes from within.

-I think Gaudreau can have a better year, he wasn't at his best last year. I think what will help is overall depth on our club. Even if Gaudreau draws the opposition's best checkers and defensemen that should open up some room for the other lines
-I think Bennett could have a serious breakout at some point. He has the skill to be one of the best goalscorers on the team IMO
-I think Tkachuk still has a lot of room to grow. Also think we may get more offence out of him if he sees more priority on the PP. I know the Backlund line was amazing but I still think Gaudreau-Monahan-Tkachuk could be one of the best lines in the league someday
-Jankowski is a skilled forward who may help our overall skill up front at some point next year. Another guy who has PP capabilities and would displace someone worse
-Frankly replacing Brouwer on the PP with Tkachuk, Janko or whoever should help our offence. In fact not forcing Brouwer onto the top two lines or top PP unit should help our offence overall quite a bit.
-Monahan may not have peaked yet
-I think the PP units overall were constructed poorly. I would've preferred Gio/Hamilton on the first unit points not Brodie/Versteeg.
-Ferland may just be scratching the surface. Imagine if he can play a little more consistently with what he showed at times last year. Imagine him replacing Brouwer on the PP as the net front presence. Should be him and Tkachuk on the two different units as the net front presence.

High skill guys on the Flames IMO: Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Tkachuk, Backlund, Jankowski, Versteeg
Complimentary skilled guys to play with them: Ferland, Frolik

That's 3 lines of skilled guys. I don't even know where we'd fit another winger if we bring Versteeg back. Obviously we can't count on Jankowski since he's a big question mark but he probably will break in at some point during the year.

Bottom line is the most skilled players on this team are what, 24 and under? No reason to think they've all peaked. Lots of reason to think a few of them may take a step forward. And thus I don't really see adding offence up front as a big need at all. If we don't bring Versteeg back maybe you pick up another option but I don't think it needs to be a big money, big name guy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

...Why is this even a conversation? Calgary only had two TWENTY goal scorers last year, let alone 30.

Because the Flames have two young players who have both scored 30 goals in the last two seasons.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The point is that calgary had ZERO 30 goal scorers last year, and Monahan is the only one who at the moment can realistically be counted on to score in that vicinity next year.

Why is this even a conversation? Calgary only had two TWENTY goal scorers last year, let alone 30.

You're being a little disingenuous here, since the Flames have plenty of players with 20- and even 30-goal pedigree or potential. The following players have either scored 20+ goals in the past three years, or have come within five goals of that mark in the past three years and are under 28: Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Frolik, Bennett, Ferland, Brouwer, Versteeg, Bouma and Giordano.

Clearly, Bouma won't reach that mark again, but the rest of those guys are decent enough candidates to hit 20 again this coming year, with the first three (and maybe some of the rest) candidates to hit thirty. That isn't even counting Tkachuk, who scored 13 as a 18- and 19-year-old last season, or Hamilton, who keeps improving his goal totals.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think we should expect 25, and 30 from Monahan. I think Tkachuk will be a threat to score 30 when he hits his prime. The Flames's strength in scoring last year came in balance—reliable offensive producers on three lines and scoring threats from multiple defensemen. When there are twelve players who can score +10 goals on the roster, having multiple 30-goal scorers is not as important.

Don't agree, Flames finished in the bottom half of the league last year for offense. Bottom half in the league for even strength offense

Further, they are 25th in the league in terms of scoring that comes from even strength goals.

Last year if the power play wasn't going, the flames weren't winning. The team absolutely needs a goal scoring winger to play top 6 minutes this year.

[Mike F]

I find it odd that the Flames are taking cues from the two Western teams when it's the Penguins who have won back-to-back cups with a patchwork blueline, but a slew of fast, offensively gifted forwards...

[David Struch]

Gaudreau (6,750,000) Monahan (6,375,000) Tkachuk (925,000)
Jankowski (925,000) Backlund (3,575,000) Frolik (4,300,000)
Ferland (1,500,000) Bennett (2,700,000) Lazar (874,125)
Bouma (2,200,000) Stajan (3,125,000) Brouwer (4,500,000)
Hamilton (612,500) Chiasson (840,000)

Giordano (6,750,000) Hamilton (5,750,000)
Brodie (4,650,400 ________
Kulak (660,000) Andersson (755,833)
Bartkowski (612,500)

Smith (4,250,000)
________

Salary Cap: $75,000,000 million
Bonuses/Buyout (Raymond) $1,670,000
Total Cap Hit: $63,680,358
Cap Space Available: $11,319,642

I don't understand how so many posters believe the Flames are cash strapped?

[Love]

Originally Posted by Mike F

I find it odd that the Flames are taking cues from the two Western teams when it's the Penguins who have won back-to-back cups with a patchwork blueline, but a slew of fast, offensively gifted forwards...

It's going to be hard to recreate that franchise's model considering they have two generational forwards

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Don't agree, Flames finished in the bottom half of the league last year for offense. Bottom half in the league for even strength offense

But top half of the league in 5-v-5 possession. The previous two seasons the Flames were a top-ten scoring team. I think last year was probably a down year for them offensively.

Further, they are 25th in the league in terms of scoring that comes from even strength goals.

This is flatly wrong, and I don't know where you are getting your numbers. The Flames were ranked 20th in 5-v-5 scoring last year and 12th in 3-v-4 scoring. I agree it is not great, but this was in what looks to be an off year.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But top half of the league in 5-v-5 possession. The previous two seasons the Flames were a top-ten scoring team. I think last year was probably a down year for them offensively.

Does possession win games though when the goals aren't there? WHen they were previously a top offensive team they were the worst defensive team in the league. They were literally sacrificing goals against to play a more offensive oriented style of hockey. It remains to be seen if they can be a top 10 team in either category without sacrificing one of them.

This is flatly wrong, and I don't know where you are getting your numbers. The Flames were ranked 20th in 5-v-5 scoring last year and 12th in 3-v-4 scoring. I agree it is not great, but this was in what looks to be an off year.

I might be wrong, but the team scored 73% of their goals at even strength.

This little chart says the only team in the league last year to score fewer total goals at even strength than the flames and still make the playoffs was Ottawa.

https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/s...al-ratio/2016/
https://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/s...rcentage/2016/

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Does possession win games though when the goals aren't there? WHen they were previously a top offensive team they were the worst defensive team in the league. They were literally sacrificing goals against to play a more offensive oriented style of hockey. It remains to be seen if they can be a top 10 team in either category without sacrificing one of them.

Under Hartley, the threat of the stretch pass, in combination with the d-men being encouraged to rush the puck (and actually having PMD's that can play this style) certainly led to a lot of offence from the dmen, but I wouldn't call these strats sacrificing defence for offence. The winger is expected to cover for any rushing dmen. He certainly didn't shy away from ripping into ours if they blew their assignment. Looser and far more aggressive offensively, but the amount of offense generated is far greater than the amount of times you'd get burned on a turnover.

That was Hartley's system. I understand where the sentiment of him "not having a system" comes from, but there was one and he stuck to it. He was all about letting the goalie have the long shot and collapsing to take away high danger scoring chances. This unfortunately led to some spectacularly bad possession numbers (and the 'no systems!' battlecry), but that's the nature of how the team played under his strategies. Exciting for sure, but not tailored towards sustainability.

As for sacrificing one for the other - I think the league-worst goaltending had more to do with our playoff miss last season than any defence-related issues.

[Flamefan1]

The Flames would be complete idiots to trade Bennett or Backlund for Harmonic oner some other defensive retread. They need to re-sign Stone as our #4 defenseman. When we signed Stone at the trade deadline our season turned around in 10 games. Why we we are searching for number 4 when we already have one baffles me. What a pleasure it was to see accurate slap shots from the right point actually hitting the net and also finding the net. I for one will be very pleased to see Stone re-signed and saddened if he is not. Also those saying we need a top line right wing forget that Mono and Gaudreau started playing much better when Ferland was given more than a 2 game stint as there winger. Ferland has the speed and talent to play with these two and also gives Johny the freedom to play his game as he did not have to worry about being slashed when Ferly was on the ice. We do not need to waste our future potential on Harmonic. We just need to sihpgn Stone and play 2 of our top four young defenseman.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by David Struch

Gaudreau (6,750,000) Monahan (6,375,000) Tkachuk (925,000)
Jankowski (925,000) Backlund (3,575,000) Frolik (4,300,000)
Ferland (1,500,000) Bennett (2,700,000) Lazar (874,125)
Bouma (2,200,000) Stajan (3,125,000) Brouwer (4,500,000)
Hamilton (612,500) Chiasson (840,000)

Giordano (6,750,000) Hamilton (5,750,000)
Brodie (4,650,400 ________
Kulak (660,000) Andersson (755,833)
Bartkowski (612,500)

Smith (4,250,000)
________

Salary Cap: $75,000,000 million
Bonuses/Buyout (Raymond) $1,670,000
Total Cap Hit: $63,680,358
Cap Space Available: $11,319,642

I don't understand how so many posters believe the Flames are cash strapped?

I agree. This gets said so much on here that the Flames can't spend 6 on a top line winger or the need to move Backlund because he will cost too much and they won't have the cap space

They can sign a 6 million player easily and keep Stone and keep Backlund and they should have no issues resigning Tkachuk and 2 years. The cap will go up every year and every year it does Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie, Hamilton and so on contracts will get better and better. The Flames have 0 7 million cap players and currently there are 33 with a couple Oilers rumored to be getting more than that and 1 getting double that. Radulov also rumoured to be getting 7, Shattenkirk more than likely will too. Gaudreau and Gio might not even crack the top 40 in the NHL. The Flames right now have as good as cap as any team in the NHL. Definitely out of the teams that made the playoffs last year.

Not sure if Oshie is the guy that puts us over the top but 6 for 6 is a good deal as in a 75mil cap 6 is getting to be almost 2nd line money. Next year the cap will be 77 at minimum and as long as there is no lockout this trend continues each year

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Mike F

I find it odd that the Flames are taking cues from the two Western teams when it's the Penguins who have won back-to-back cups with a patchwork blueline, but a slew of fast, offensively gifted forwards...

But we're never gonna have Crosby and Malkin. So you build the next best way you think you can.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on offence vs defence, but trying to create what the Pens have isn't an option.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Don't agree, Flames finished in the bottom half of the league last year for offense. Bottom half in the league for even strength offense

Further, they are 25th in the league in terms of scoring that comes from even strength goals.

Last year if the power play wasn't going, the flames weren't winning. The team absolutely needs a goal scoring winger to play top 6 minutes this year.

They did but it's also pretty obvious to anyone who watched the team last year that this past season was a tale of two teams. The team that slowly adjusted to the new system and struggled with its uptake, and the team that seemingly came into its own in February. Last 30 games of the season this was a much different team, so the big question is whether that is the team that shows up this year. If it is then I think we win the division. Gaudreau scored 30 points in 30 games and Monahan had 27 in that same frame. There's good scoring talent on this team, it just didn't show until the team bought into GGs system. And I still don't think it's unreasonable to expect, or atleast hope, that Bennett finally breaks through this season. If he does then we have incredibly good scoring depth.

That said, Oshie would fit nice. Consistent 50-60 point right wing whose a great defensive player.

[GoJetsGo]

In a vacuum Oshie would be good. But the reality is he's likely to sign something approaching a Lucic type contract.

Say no to big fish hunting on July 1st. There are a few exceptions but I don't see Oshie as being one of them. He's likely to command a lot of money and term.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

In a vacuum Oshie would be good. But the reality is he's likely to sign something approaching a Lucic type contract.

Say no to big fish hunting on July 1st. There are a few exceptions but I don't see Oshie as being one of them. He's likely to command a lot of money and term.

Oh I agree, the price and more importantly, the term are likely to be too burdensome so I don't expect we sign him. Just pointing out that he would be a nice fit and we do have room for him cap wise, I just don't think it should be over 4 years, which I agree it will be.

[Beninho]

Just stay away from Hamonic, his price is too damn high. Re-sign Stone

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Oh I agree, the price and more importantly, the term are likely to be too burdensome so I don't expect we sign him. Just pointing out that he would be a nice fit and we do have room for him cap wise, I just don't think it should be over 4 years, which I agree it will be.

That's the problem in general with high profile free agents.

The top couple FA's every year could potentially be nice fits if they'd sign for shorter term / less money but they're in that position to cash in and seek long term security.