06-13-2017, 06:35 PM
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#5441
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce
The term defensive defenseman, as it relates to 5 on 5 play, means one thing.
They are constantly hemmed in their own zone- playing defense in the defensive zone, getting outshot, outchanced and outscored
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You mean like...Robyn Regehr?
Lots of very good dmen in that category. Josh Manson, Marc Methot, Hamonic, even Engelland was fanstastic in that role this year. None of them will light up a scoreboard but every one of them were extremely important to their clubs. Many more on top of them.
Its why the goofy anayltics simply dont hold any water in most cases...you have to watch the way guys play instead of studying spread sheets.
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06-13-2017, 06:54 PM
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#5442
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce
The term defensive defenseman, as it relates to 5 on 5 play, means one thing.
They are constantly hemmed in their own zone- playing defense in the defensive zone, getting outshot, outchanced and outscored
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Really? Defensive D-men are critical to almost every team. You need depth d-men to eat minutes and better yet provide some grit and intimidation. I don't think people give enough credit for what Engelland did here. If he's gone this team has a pretty big hole to fill IMO. That hole will not be filled by any of the current prospects either.
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06-13-2017, 07:01 PM
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#5443
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Franchise Player
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Defensive Dmen don't need to be big hulking guys that hit everything that moves hard but handle the puck like a grenade and couldn't make an outlet pass to save their lives.
I'd rather a mobile guy who gets to pucks quick, and moves them up the ice accurately and even quicker. If he has size and a physical element that's a bonus.
Tanev, Pesce, Pysyk, Ekholm, Manson, Lindholm, etc
Say what you want about possession stats, but I don't really want a guy who regularly and continually gets out shot and out chanced badly when he's on the ice because he has limited puck handling and puck moving skills.
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06-13-2017, 07:22 PM
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#5444
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Saving the world one gif at a time
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I never said Ferland was a plug and that I hate him, he's not a first line player. How many other 30 NHL teams is he on the first line and be honest...I'd say none. I love the kid to be quite honest, always have liked the way he plays. His ceiling is the second line at best.
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06-13-2017, 07:22 PM
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#5445
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Franchise Player
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Jay bouwmeester is a defensive damn in the post lockout nhl. Little to no offence but great in his own zone and breaking up plays.
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06-13-2017, 07:31 PM
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#5447
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Now where have I heard all this before.
Oh yeah. I'll keep my "grossly over rated fancy stats" over what NHL GMs think. |
The fact that one player had a bad year proves absolutely nothing about advanced stats.
Anyone that quotes stats religiously should understand at least that much about them.
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06-13-2017, 07:42 PM
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#5448
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North America
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Dion won't waive NMC. As per TSN
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06-13-2017, 07:44 PM
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#5449
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Saving the world one gif at a time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop
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Bin der, dun dat. Pass
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06-13-2017, 07:50 PM
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#5450
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop
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Spector is an Insider?
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06-13-2017, 07:55 PM
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#5451
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoho
Dion won't waive NMC. As per TSN
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Hahahaha. Poor Ottawa
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06-13-2017, 08:02 PM
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#5452
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
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I'd take Russell back as long as they keep Stone as well.
Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Stone
Russell-Andersson
That seems like a deep group 1-6. Would probably only cost 6.5-7 for both Stone and Russell.
The Flames have about 24 million in cap space. That would leave 17 million for
Resigning Bennett + Ferland + Chiasson (probably in the 5.5 million range for the group)
Signing 1 more forward
Signing a starter and backup (assuming Gillies and his .925 will be the backup because he's cheap)
The Flames would save just under 3 million if they bought out Stajan and Bouma. Replacing them with say Janko and Lazar would mean they'd have an extra 1.5 to work with.
Without the buyouts, they'd have 10.25 or so for both a starter and a winger of some sort. If the Flames offer Mason 4 million, they might be able to snag Oshie, but would probably be better off going with a slightly cheaper UFA option. Marleau might make sense as would a guy like Sam Gagner (which would be funny if he had success here)
Also depends on who gets taken in the expansion draft. Removing Brouwer creates more opportunities, but I am already penciling Kulak in for that pick.
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Last edited by Caged Great; 06-13-2017 at 08:14 PM.
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06-13-2017, 08:08 PM
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#5453
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary
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Eww, I was done with Russell after his first run. I would not like him back. Keep Stone as priority #1 for the d core. Then go search out for about 20-1000 other options before Russell. I enjoyed his service the first time. But please no more.
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06-13-2017, 08:11 PM
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#5454
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caged Great
I'd take Russell back as long as they keep Stone as well.
Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Stone
Russell-Andersson
That seems like a deep group 1-6. Would probably only cost 6.5-7 for both Stone and Russell.
The Flames have about 24 million in cap space. That would leave 17 million for
Resigning Bennett + Ferland + Chiasson (probably in the 5.5 million range for the group)
Signing 1 more forward
Signing a starter and backup (assuming Gillies and his .925 will be the backup because he's cheap)
The Flames would save just under 3 million if they bought out Stajan and Bouma. Replacing them with say Janko and Lazar would mean they'd have an extra 1.5 to work with.
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Flames aren't buying out Stajan and Bouma.
If by some weird happening they do, it won't be to fit Kris Russell into the cap.
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06-13-2017, 08:12 PM
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#5455
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caged Great
I'd take Russell back as long as they keep Stone as well.
Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Stone
Russell-Andersson
That seems like a deep group 1-6. Would probably only cost 6.5-7 for both Stone and Russell.
The Flames have about 24 million in cap space. That would leave 17 million for
Resigning Bennett + Ferland + Chiasson (probably in the 5.5 million range for the group)
Signing 1 more forward
Signing a starter and backup (assuming Gillies and his .925 will be the backup because he's cheap)
The Flames would save just under 3 million if they bought out Stajan and Bouma. Replacing them with say Janko and Lazar would mean they'd have an extra 1.5 to work with.
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Russell is probably looking for a retirement contract.
If it's 2 years though I'm down
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06-13-2017, 08:57 PM
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#5456
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
You mean like...Robyn Regehr?
Lots of very good dmen in that category. Josh Manson, Marc Methot, Hamonic, even Engelland was fanstastic in that role this year. None of them will light up a scoreboard but every one of them were extremely important to their clubs. Many more on top of them.
Its why the goofy anayltics simply dont hold any water in most cases...you have to watch the way guys play instead of studying spread sheets.
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It's not 2005 anymore. The game evolves. And no matter how you look at it, consistently being outshot, outchanced and outscored is not likely to lead to much success. Or is that goofy also?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ArmBands
Really? Defensive D-men are critical to almost every team. You need depth d-men to eat minutes and better yet provide some grit and intimidation. I don't think people give enough credit for what Engelland did here. If he's gone this team has a pretty big hole to fill IMO. That hole will not be filled by any of the current prospects either.
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Who were the Defensive D-men on the Preds, who played that role?
Subban and Ekholm completely neutralized everyone they faced in the playoffs.
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06-13-2017, 10:04 PM
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#5457
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Fearmongerer
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce
It's not 2005 anymore. The game evolves. And no matter how you look at it, consistently being outshot, outchanced and outscored is not likely to lead to much success. Or is that goofy also?
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Yes...its goofy to suggest such. There are so many variables, even by the admission of analytic geeks.
You say the game evolves...Pittsburgh just won a Stanley Cup playing incredible DEFENSE...no goals allowed in the last 2 games. Who was playing shutdown/defensive minutes for them? Daley, Dumolin, and particularly Ron Hainsey. Who do you suggest was better on the back end defensively?
Quote:
Who were the Defensive D-men on the Preds, who played that role?
Subban and Ekholm completely neutralized everyone they faced in the playoffs.
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Who played shutdown defense for the Preds? Are you seriously asking that?
They all did...but they have an amazing group of 4 that can play both ends equally effectively...no other team sans a healthy Duck squad can claim the same.
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06-14-2017, 04:32 AM
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#5458
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Franchise Player
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So when do the moves Start already?!
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06-14-2017, 04:41 AM
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#5459
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy
Flames aren't buying out Stajan and Bouma.
If by some weird happening they do, it won't be to fit Kris Russell into the cap.
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I doubt it also, but I just would like them to free up some spots for some kids and have Poirier/Klimchuk/Lazar/Shinkaruk/Janko/Hathaway/Mangiapane compete for those spots than just giving it to them because they make 5.25 between them.
Even sending them to Stockton would be fine. Can't keep all these prospects on the farm and expect them to take the next step. Have to see what you've got or move on.
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06-14-2017, 06:16 AM
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#5460
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbsy
Jay bouwmeester is a defensive damn in the post lockout nhl. Little to no offence but great in his own zone and breaking up plays.
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Bouwmeester is soft, both physically and mentally.
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