Maybe, you can argue with the style of Rick Bell, but the ridiculousness of needing to spend $170,000 to have someone basically come in and run council meetings is a poor reflection on the mayor.
I very much doubt that he'll implement the idea because it will probably be the end of him.
Rick Bell's writing style is awful. I suppose also aimed at his audience. His style is talkative and simple. But he gets some points across at times.
I've not been a fan of Rick Bell for at least a decade and probably more, and generally skim his columns only, but on this one, he's hit the target. His column demonstrates almost all of Nenshi's shortcomings with very few words, and he does so very effectively. I was taken aback that I agreed with it almost entirely.
Nenshi's going to have to campaign hard this fall, I think people are starting to become tired of his antics. He needs to transform his ways into a deal maker not a bully. He is coming across more of a bully as the years go by.
From the column. This describes Nenshi so well:
Let’s see how the mayor stacks up.
Act humbly. Fail.
Celebrate diversity of opinions and avoid dismissive comments. Fail.
Keep your own comments brief and to the point. No rambling. Fail.
Resist the temptation to offer instant rebuttals to statements you disagree with. Fail.
Avoid chatty and casual remarks. Fail.
Avoid becoming emotional or defensive when you do not prevail. Fail.
Last edited by Kjesse; 06-07-2017 at 11:51 AM.
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Okay, I just broke a habit of 15 years and read a Rick Bell column. And he seems bang on the money.
Can someone who disagrees with the article point to anything substantively wrong about it? Is there any reason to dismiss his criticisms of council meetings under the mayor, besides partisan loyalty to Nenshi?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Okay, I just broke a habit of 15 years and read a Rick Bell column. And he seems bang on the money.
Can someone who disagrees with the article point to anything substantively wrong about it? Is there any reason to dismiss his criticisms of council meetings under the mayor, besides partisan loyalty to Nenshi?
People tend to jump on bandwagons. For years certain posters have been trashing the Sun and Rick Bell to no end so to some it simply becomes fact without even reading into it. Bell caters to his audience but that doesn't mean he's always wrong or out to lunch. You don't have to be a genius after all to pick out the faults of Calgary city hall. He does a great job at picking out Nenshi's faults but if you go through threads here over the years so you would see similar stuff written by posters so he's put it in one tidy article and it's hard for even the staunchest Nenshi supporter to deny the man fits the mold.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 06-07-2017 at 01:19 PM.
Okay, I just broke a habit of 15 years and read a Rick Bell column. And he seems bang on the money.
Can someone who disagrees with the article point to anything substantively wrong about it? Is there any reason to dismiss his criticisms of council meetings under the mayor, besides partisan loyalty to Nenshi?
The writing style, for one. It's written for a 10th grade reading level, which is likely to help his audience.
Second, I have no problem with the assertion that Nenshi is a poor meeting chair. However, I have a huge problem with the assertion that it's somehow a scandal or boondoggle.
I can totally see how Nenshi is a poor facilitator, because even though he is nearly 100% correct, it is hard for him to stop without other people agreeing with him or at least seeing his side. This is a hopeless endeavour when you have people like Sean Chu, who doesn't even read the council material, much less understand and critically form an opinion on it.
Perhaps we do need a meeting chair, someone whose sole duty is to keep the meeting effective and without bias. Is there something so scandalous about this? Maybe Woolley should be the meeting chair, saving us $170,000 a year, AND we get good meetings.
My father-in-law used to be high up in the city administration, and a councillor he had tremendous respect for was Dale Hodges. He said Hodges worked 10-12 hours a day fielding any and all requests from his constituents and helping them get whatever they needed done with the City. Easy to see how a guy like that served 10 terms and never made any enemies (besides the Hell's Angels).
I've known Dale well and done some work with him over the past twenty years. I would agree, Dale pretty much lived at the City Hall. He was competent, knowledgeable and had a good memory. I personally witnessed him pulling a 10-yr old report from a huge stacked pile of reports on the floor in his office just to prove a point. I would also agree that he was able to maintain the most politically-independent status among all of his alderman-contemporaries during his service. No developer, consultant, civil servant or community activist could ever claim having Dale in their pocket. He would always support the motions he liked and oppose the ones he didn't regardless of the lobbying efforts of supporters and/or opponents.
Having said that, being on Council that long made him (and, probably, would make anyone) arrogant, dismissive and non-collaborative. He'd made a personal judgement on an issue and would simply stick to that judgement in voting on a matter. He was known to be quite vicious and crafty in blocking something when he didn't like it. In his last term, councillors just stopped seeking his support on important matters and did not care to support motions relevant to his ward.
Rick Bell's article on Nenshi's shortcomings is bang on. He was never a Dale Hodges-type politician though. Dale could care less if he was popular or not. It seems that popularity means everything for Nenshi. He is still popular and I would not be surprised if Nenshi gets re-elected easily.
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The writing style, for one. It's written for a 10th grade reading level, which is likely to help his audience.
That's actually being far too generous to Bell. A typical broadsheet newspaper (like the New York Times, Toronto Star, Globe & Mail, National Post, etc.) is purposely written at an 8th grade reading level. Tabloids like the Sun are written at a 6th grade level. I haven't seen an analysis of Rick Bell's writing, but with his penchant for single-sentence paragraphs, his is almost certainly lower than even the rest of his publication's.
The writing style, for one. It's written for a 10th grade reading level, which is likely to help his audience.
All daily newspapers are written for a grade 10 reading level. That's what they teach in journalism school. But whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regorium
Second, I have no problem with the assertion that Nenshi is a poor meeting chair. However, I have a huge problem with the assertion that it's somehow a scandal or boondoggle.
If they have to bring in a facilitator for 170K a year, yes it's a scandal or boondogle. Every other council has managed to get by without one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regorium
I can totally see how Nenshi is a poor facilitator, because even though he is nearly 100% correct, it is hard for him to stop without other people agreeing with him or at least seeing his side. This is a hopeless endeavour when you have people like Sean Chu, who doesn't even read the council material, much less understand and critically form an opinion on it.
So you're saying he's poorly suited to chairing meetings because he's almost always right. Seriously? There have always been councilors who are dumb, stubborn, and don't read the material or understand it. Duerr and Bronconnier had to deal with them too. You think Ric McIver was a treat to work with? This is nothing new.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regorium
Perhaps we do need a meeting chair, someone whose sole duty is to keep the meeting effective and without bias. Is there something so scandalous about this? Maybe Woolley should be the meeting chair, saving us $170,000 a year, AND we get good meetings.
Facilitating council meetings is one of the core duties of the mayor. Yes, it requires a specific skill set. So does understanding budgets and setting priorities. But a mayor doesn't get to opt out of those duties just because he finds them difficult.
So either Nenshi doesn't want to learn one of the core duties of his role, or he's temperamentally unsuited to one of the core duties of his role. Either way, it doesn't look good on him.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Last edited by CliffFletcher; 06-07-2017 at 01:53 PM.
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Here's my problem with the Rick Bell article. If you read something else, say, written by an actual journalist who is just a rabble rouser, like, perhaps this:
you get an entirely different view of what has occurred. It was an committee making recommendations and council was debating it. Nenshi wasn't begging for this, it isn't his idea to spend $170,000 and he welcomes different ideas on how to proceed. All of council was involved in the discussion. But if you only read the Sun and The Dinger, you are being greatly misled.
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Yeah, no other council had a facilitator - but there is no reference point as to what an effective council looks like or has done. This is the first council that even attempted to look at itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
So you're saying he's poorly suited to chairing meetings because he's almost always right. Seriously? There have always been councilors who are dumb, stubborn, and don't read the material or understand it. Duerr and Bronconnier had to deal with them too. You think Ric McIver was a treat to work with? This is nothing new.
I'm saying that because he spends far too much time trying to convince somebody to his point of view, rather than moving the meeting forward. It is a character flaw no doubt.
Quote:
Facilitating council meetings is one of the core duties of the mayor. Yes, it requires a specific skill set. So does understanding budgets and setting priorities. But a mayor doesn't get to opt out of those duties just because he finds them difficult.
So either Nenshi doesn't want to learn one of the core duties of his role, or he's temperamentally unsuited to one of the core duties of his role. Either way, it doesn't look good on him.
Okay. I would love to see the next Mayor run on a platform of efficient meeting facilitation, being present for all committees, and a representative of the city on outside boards (the 3 duties of the mayor according to the City of Calgary).
I am still not agreeing that it's a scandal. Bring on a meeting chair, or maybe Evan Woolley can do it. Maybe changing the "core duties of a Mayor" that allows someone like Nenshi to play to his strengths and hiring a full time meeting chair would increase effectiveness of all future councils regardless of whether Nenshi is the mayor or not.
Most of you should subscribe to Nenshi's YouTube channel which is basically the unedited version of his media scrums. They're actually quite awesome. I think they would change a lot of your perceptions about him.
Here's the one from yesterday when actually says he's asked for a chair and that it would be a favour to him if they could get a facilitator so he could participate more in council and not have to be the one refereeing other council members:
Here's my problem with the Rick Bell article. If you read something else, say, written by an actual journalist who is just a rabble rouser, like, perhaps this:
you get an entirely different view of what has occurred. It was an committee making recommendations and council was debating it. Nenshi wasn't begging for this, it isn't his idea to spend $170,000 and he welcomes different ideas on how to proceed. All of council was involved in the discussion. But if you only read the Sun and The Dinger, you are being greatly misled.
Sounds like the same thing to me albeit from a slightly more neutral angle. It's a bad idea regardless of who's idea it is and it's something that previous mayors all had to deal with so I'm not exactly sure what makes Nenshi special that he can't chair the meetings. Bell simply goes into it deeper rationalizing why Nenshi is struggling with chairing the meetings and it's pretty clear Nenshi supporters struggle with his shortcomings being brought up.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 06-07-2017 at 02:34 PM.
Sounds like the same thing to me albeit from a slightly more neutral angle. It's a bad idea regardless of who's idea it is and it's something that previous mayors all had to deal with so I'm not exactly sure what makes Nenshi special that he can't chair the meetings. Bell simply goes into it deeper rationalizing why Nenshi is struggling with chairing the meetings and it's pretty clear Nenshi supporters struggle with his shortcomings being brought up.
I'm not struggling with it at all.
I'm sure most of us have worked in the corporate world. We all know people that absolutely cannot run meetings. They could be a brilliant engineer or manager and command respect for the work that they do, but man are they ever hopeless at meetings. A one hour meeting drones on to three different sessions, and still no work gets done at the meetings. Most of the work ends up happening outside of the meetings (wasting even more time) via e-mails or other one on one communication.
If companies had better people to run meetings, then the people actually doing the work can get more done. Issues that need to be discussed offline get parked appropriately, when an issue has been beaten to death someone can tell people to move on (without partisanship). It seems like a great idea to me.
Nenshi is "special" because he's a part of the first council that's actually seen that council could be improved. I would argue that a lot of past councils were completely ineffective and got nothing done, but just because they didn't try to fix the problem doesn't mean that they were actually effective - it means they were ignorant.
Here's my problem with the Rick Bell article. If you read something else, say, written by an actual journalist who is just a rabble rouser, like, perhaps this:
you get an entirely different view of what has occurred. It was an committee making recommendations and council was debating it. Nenshi wasn't begging for this, it isn't his idea to spend $170,000 and he welcomes different ideas on how to proceed. All of council was involved in the discussion. But if you only read the Sun and The Dinger, you are being greatly misled.
