2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Corral

There is a whole lot of Can-US players on that Penguins roster. If I was a GM - there is no way I would build my roster around a euro-Russian core - not a chance.

Its interesting you raised the 2008 Red Wings - once those gritty Canadian and US players retired - notice Zetterberg and Datysuk didn't lead the Wings to any more championships.

Who were the gritty US/Canadian players who helped the 2008 Wings win the Cup?

Almost the entire core was European.

Brian Rafalski (not gritty) and Dan Cleary were the only non-euros in the top 11 on the team in scoring.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Corral

There is a whole lot of Can-US players on that Penguins roster. If I was a GM - there is no way I would build my roster around a euro-Russian core - not a chance.

Its interesting you raised the 2008 Red Wings - once those gritty Canadian and US players retired - notice Zetterberg and Datysuk didn't lead the Wings to any more championships.

I think it's more of a North American style of reffing more than "effort". If refs didn't put their whistle away, that wrecking ball style of play wouldn't be as successful. The Russians put in an effort, they just don't play like a goon. Not all efforts are the same kind. A mathematician working late into the night is a lot of effort, even though he's not swinging a sledge hammer all day.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Who were the gritty US/Canadian players who helped the 2008 Wings win the Cup?

Almost the entire core was European.

Brian Rafalski (not gritty) and Dan Cleary were the only non-euros in the top 11 on the team in scoring.

Yeah i'm pretty sure it was more of Lidstrom and gang getting older more than anything.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Corral

Indeed they may - but I said usually not always - so that's fine.

There is a certain hunger and desire needed to play your guts out in a 2 month playoff tourney with lots of physical play - and euro-Russians too often just don't seem to have the desire. Sergie Makarov showed me that more than 25 years ago - it hasn't changed.

Amazing.

Yup, when I make an argument using evidence to back me up, I use an example from 25 years ago that may or may not be true, and then proceed to ignore all the evidence that counters my idea in the 25 years after that example.

I could go through the trouble of presenting the case as to why you're wrong, but I feel like your confirmation bias won't listen to anything I say anyways.

Jesus, Don Cherry is more progressive than you are.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Or acquire someone else, I don't know. But getting rid of Brouwer is addition by subtraction, he's the worst Flame regular I've ever seen

This hyperbole is ridiculous. He had a down year stats-wise, but still contributed in many facets away from the scoresheet. Why must CP always have a perennial whipping boy?

Brouwer is a good player and I won't be surprised to see him bounce back with 20 goals next season, wherever he happens to be playing.

[Erick Estrada]

Brouwer is hopefully a better player than he showed last season but I don't think anyone can argue that he brought his linemates down as it seems players instantly got better the moment they were removed from his line which is why he finished the season playing on the 4th line. Maybe it's just a matter of being more comfortable in his second season but if he's not markedly better next season I don't know what you do with the guy seeing he brings lines down yet makes too much money to buy out or trade.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Brouwer is hopefully a better player than he showed last season but I don't think anyone can argue that he brought his linemates down as it seems players instantly got better the moment they were removed from his line. Maybe it's just a matter of being more comfortable in his second season but if he's not markedly better next season he's going to be an expensive 4th line player.

He's a veteran player who's too comfortable, if you ask me

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

He's a veteran player who's too comfortable, if you ask me

Well he was demoted to 4th line so if he's not feeling a little hot around the collar from that then we probably have a big problem. I'm willing to see what he can do next season before writing him off as a total bust but my expectations are tempered in that his ceiling to me is 3rd line player. Treliving really got hoodwinked on this contract that's for sure as he's worth nowhere near what the Flames are paying him.

[Toonage]

I think Brouwer haters better get comfortable knowing he's likely starting on the first line again next season.

I also hate using the word haters so I'll apologize for that.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by Corral

There is a whole lot of Can-US players on that Penguins roster.

Pretty sure the current playoff points leader and the guy about to win his second conn smythe isn't a good ole farm boy from Saskatchewan.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think Brouwer haters better get comfortable knowing he's likely starting on the first line again next season.

I also hate using the word haters so I'll apologize for that.

Get ready for Johnny and Monahan to have slow starts if that's the case.

[Toonage]

I hope they don't have slow starts, and I too would love to see the 1RW upgraded, but we need to prepare ourselves for this very real possibility.

[Jiri Hrdina]

We are also ignoring the fact that the Flames don't have a 2nd and 3rd for this year. So if they did that - they would then be absent 2nd and 3rds for 2 straight years.
You can't do that.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

We are also ignoring the fact that the Flames don't have a 2nd and 3rd for this year. So if they did that - they would then be absent 2nd and 3rds for 2 straight years.
You can't do that.

Why can't you do that? Burke said he doesn't care if Tre trades every pick in the draft this year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Why can't you do that? Burke said he doesn't care if Tre trades every pick in the draft this year.

Again - the Flames already lack a 2nd and 3rd this year.
We know the long-term damage to an organization that can be done by constantly peddling off top 90 picks, particularly to correct past errors (e.g. adding a 2nd to off load Kotalik).
You need some bullets in the chamber to continue to stock pile your organization.
I don't have a problem with the picks that were dealt this year - but you can't do that on an ongoing basis without doing harm to your future.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I think Brouwer haters better get comfortable knowing he's likely starting on the first line again next season.

I also hate using the word haters so I'll apologize for that.

Funny enough Versteeg started on the first line last year. Brouwer didn't get a look for quite a while as they felt he was best served dragging Bennett down as Monahan and Gaudreau didn't need any help having slow starts last year.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Funny enough Versteeg started on the first line last year. Brouwer didn't get a look for quite a while as they felt he was best served dragging Bennett down as Monahan and Gaudreau didn't need any help having slow starts last year.

You are correct. I don't think Brouwer got a look on the top line until just before Gaudreau got hurt. Same night, even?

My mistake.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Why on earth is Brouwer "likely" to start on the first line? Ferland showed some potential. Brouwer ended the year on either the 3rd or 4th lines. Likely not protected for the expansion draft. I am not a Brouwer hater and I think there is a decent chance he will bounce back, but I have seen no evidence that he will be penciled in with Johnny/Mony.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Corral

Indeed they may - but I said usually not always - so that's fine.

There is a certain hunger and desire needed to play your guts out in a 2 month playoff tourney with lots of physical play - and euro-Russians too often just don't seem to have the desire. Sergie Makarov showed me that more than 25 years ago - it hasn't changed.

Yeah, only a few exceptions : Malkin, Hornqvist, Hagelin last year (and Malkin has an MVP from his 09 win too). Hossa (a PO stud), Hjarmalsson, Teravainen, the year before. Kopitar in 2014 and 2012 says hi. Led the team in PO points when winning the cup. Same year as Gaborik led the team in PO goals. And Boston - they had Kreiji, Chara, Seidenberg, Kaberle.

Oh and, the Wings in 08 didn't just have Datsyuk and Zetterberg as Euros. They had Hossa, Lidstrom, Franzen, Hudler, Kronwall, Holmstrom, Filpulla, Samuelsonn.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Why on earth is Brouwer "likely" to start on the first line? Ferland showed some potential. Brouwer ended the year on either the 3rd or 4th lines. Likely not protected for the expansion draft. I am not a Brouwer hater and I think there is a decent chance he will bounce back, but I have seen no evidence that he will be penciled in with Johnny/Mony.

I think they'll give him every opportunity to start considering that's whats he brought in for (or at least to work in the top 6) and he's being paid $4.5M to do it.

I can't see ownership happy with him staying on the 4L this year for that money.