Friedman: Flames ownership killed Bishop trade to Flames last summer

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

How does a young goalie force his way past a veteran keeper signed long term, for big money and likely has a NMC? and what nice return do you get before they walk because they haven't had the chance?

Some of the top goalies in the league didn't get much of anything in return when their original team traded them.

Bobrovsky, Rask, Dubnyk, Talbot, Jones. the list goes on and on.

It's totally ridiculous to draft a goalie, watch him develop into a star in the lower leagues and then give them little to no chance at the NHL level.

Come on man. Your list is flawed big time.

Talbot was traded for multiple picks and the Rangers still have a star starting goalie.
Jones was traded for a top six forward and then flipped for a 1st rounder.
Dubnyk was waiver fodder but managed to get back on track after leaving Edmonton and wasnt being held back by a good vet like Bishop so i have no idea why you even listed him.
Rask was traded for a veteran goalie because Toronto was dumb and then in Boston he forced his way past a cup winning vet goalie just like i said so bringing him up strengthens my point.

Bob was traded when he was a young back up for another young goalie who was already a starter and he was never held back by a vet either so I dont know why you bring him up either.

Andersen was traded for a 1st and a 2nd.
MAF will soon be moved to make room for Murray.
Bishop was moved to make room for Vasilevsky.

Like I said if we had signed Bishop and Parsons or Gillies developed into Nhl goalies it wouldnt be a problem at all.

[Sylvanfan]

How can you go on about goaltenders without making mention of the mess that occurred in Vancouver with Luongo and Schneider.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

How can you go on about goaltenders without making mention of the mess that occurred in Vancouver with Luongo and Schneider.

They traded schneider for 9th overall. Would anybody here be upset if 3 years from now we traded Parsons for a top ten pick while still having a high level starter like Bishop in our net?

That only became a mess because

1. Gillis is an idiot and made a mess of it because he was a blowhard donkey. Pretty sure Tre wouldnt do that.
2. Luongo has a really rough contract structure that isnt allowed anymore.

[Vinny01]

Considering where Vancouver is as an organization Horvat is more valuable to them than Schneider would be. The trade was a disaster at the time though

[MacDaddy77]

if and a big IF the Flames think one of Gillies or Rittich can come in a steal the net then I think the best play would be to gamble on Elliot for 2-3 yrs at $2.5MM per. Elliot Can be a #1 goalie when he's on and at worst if Gillies or Rittich take the net then having him signed at $2.5MM as a backup isn't a problem. Both Rittich and Gillies are couple years away from earning a significant pay increase.

[Vinny01]

Again why is there this assumption that Elliott is going to take a deal for $2.5M per for 2 years? I think best case scenario on Elliott's next deal is $4M-$4.5M for 2-3 years

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Again why is there this assumption that Elliott is going to take a deal for $2.5M per for 2 years? I think best case scenario on Elliott's next deal is $4M-$4.5M for 2-3 years

Anyone who watched Elliott single-handedly crap the bed for the Flames in the playoffs would not be dumb enough to offer him that much money. Maybe if Winnipeg gets desperate they overpay for him but even that seems unlikely.

If the Pens end up trading one of Murray/MAF I could see Elliott signing there for a one-year $2-2.5 million deal to be the 1B.

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Again why is there this assumption that Elliott is going to take a deal for $2.5M per for 2 years? I think best case scenario on Elliott's next deal is $4M-$4.5M for 2-3 years

Whos going to pay him that after this last year? His best chance at a big payday might be taking a short term "deal" with the 1 or teams that need a bonafide #1 in hopes of earning the type of contract you estimate as his last contract. I don't think Elliot is in much of a negotiating position this year

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Again why is there this assumption that Elliott is going to take a deal for $2.5M per for 2 years? I think best case scenario on Elliott's next deal is $4M-$4.5M for 2-3 years

I think the problem is the expansion draft has created a market that isn't beneficial for a goalie looking for a job right now. Almost every team has a starter protected and the market is being flooded with goalies that are capable of starting so the only spots are the backup or 1b. I don't think Elliot is in a favorable position.

[Vinny01]

Elliott has one year with a .910 save % after 5 years of near elite play and he doesn't deserve a modest raise?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Elliott has one year with a .910 save % after 5 years of near elite play and he doesn't deserve a modest raise?

Its goaltending. What has he done for us lately? Oh yeah. That.

Why should the Flames pay a guy for what he did for the Blues?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think the problem is the expansion draft has created a market that isn't beneficial for a goalie looking for a job right now. Almost every team has a starter protected and the market is being flooded with goalies that are capable of starting so the only spots are the backup or 1b. I don't think Elliot is in a favorable position.

Yet here we sit in Calgarynwith virtually no starting goalies available in free agency outside of guys like Elliott, Miller, and Mason. Sure there are some young guys that may be decent but a team like Calgary looking for a legit number 1 there are not many options. We are talking about bringing back the guy that single handedly cost us playoff wins. The goalie market isn't that great of that is the case.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its goaltending. What has he done for us lately? Oh yeah. That.

Why should the Flames pay a guy for what he did for the Blues?

I agree why should we payout for that? We shouldn't and we shouldn't even be considering bringing him back. If I am Elliott though I would think I deserve more than $2.5M on a short term deal based on what I have accomplished over the past 5 years

[MacDaddy77]

Market dictates value not past performance. It doesn't matter what he thinks he's worth.

If he wants to put himself in a position to be a #1 and get a better next contract there are onlt a few places that provide that opportunity

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Yet here we sit in Calgarynwith virtually no starting goalies available in free agency outside of guys like Elliott, Miller, and Mason. Sure there are some young guys that may be decent but a team like Calgary looking for a legit number 1 there are not many options. We are talking about bringing back the guy that single handedly cost us playoff wins. The goalie market isn't that great of that is the case.

I think it becomes more clear once we get closer to the expansion draft. That is what is going to trigger the market on goalies. I get that there is some uncertainty not having the goalie on the roster now (the whole bird in hand vs two in the bush). The one benefit is as the teams that needed goalies get them (Car and now Dal) it really is limiting options for teams that may want to get an asset vs losing a player for nothing.

Other than Calgary, who is still in the market for a goalie before the expansion draft?

[MacDaddy77]

I think it's really only Calgary and Philly looking for a #1, maybe Winnipeg. I can't think of anyone else

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

I think it's really only Calgary and Philly looking for a #1, maybe Winnipeg. I can't think of anyone else

Winnipeg is 100% looking for a starter but not before expansion as I am sure they want to protect Hellybuck. Vancouver is in the market for a goalie be it 1a/b. Philly and Calgary for sure are looking for upgrades and obviously Begas needs a number 1 and 2. Carolina got the best "backup ready to be a starter) and Dallas got the best legit starter in the market. The Pens are going to cut Fleury loose and that solves one teams issue.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I agree why should we payout for that? We shouldn't and we shouldn't even be considering bringing him back. If I am Elliott though I would think I deserve more than $2.5M on a short term deal based on what I have accomplished over the past 5 years

I totally get that, but its at this point where its his responsibility to go out and get it.

And I think hes going to be scrounging around the bottom of the 'Scratch and Dent' bin.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

I think it's really only Calgary and Philly looking for a #1, maybe Winnipeg. I can't think of anyone else

Yeah I was thinking Winnipeg as well. Don't know how highly they think of Hellebuyck. Those being the teams, I could see a situation where the eastern teams don't trade with each other (same for Western). So Pickard moving east while either Raanta or Grubauer headed west.

[Toonage]

I'll drop this here too

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...-out-on-bishop