The Flames Expansion Draft Protection/Exposure/Exempt Thread

[Robbob]

I think Brouwer does have value for the expansion team for his off ice intangibles. Setting up the culture can be expedited with the right people in the room at the start. Brian Skrudland was a huge get for Florida in their expansion year and I can see Brouwer doing the same.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I wonder if people aren't just overreacting to one bad year. Troy Brouwer was traded for a first round pick in 2011 (doesn't mean a ton today) and a couple seasons ago he was moved for Oshie another great asset.

His poor season with the Flames hurt his value but is everyone in the hockey world writing him off as an albatross? 3 years isn't a ton of term for an expansion team and he is making less than $5M. I think there is a reasonable chance the Flames can convince Vegas to take Brouwer even if they have to toss in a sweetener to get it done.

Having said that Stajan also makes a lot of sense for Vegas. I just holding out hope that Brouwer is the one that moves on. If not I really hope he bounces back

You talk about people overreacting to one bad season, then essentially suggest that the Flames should pay to get rid of him?

He had a poor year and I get exposing him due to the acquisition of Lazar and the emergence of Ferland. But why would the Flames pay Vegas to take him when they're likely better off giving him a chance to bounce back?

[Toonage]

The guys on Fan 960 this morning suggested giving up an asset like Gillies to move Brouwer. This may have been perhaps the dumbest thing I will hear today.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

You talk about people overreacting to one bad season, then essentially suggest that the Flames should pay to get rid of him?

He had a poor year and I get exposing him due to the acquisition of Lazar and the emergence of Ferland. But why would the Flames pay Vegas to take him when they're likely better off giving him a chance to bounce back?

He is not a fit on this team which is why I suggest he moves on. Just because you don't work here doesn't mean you can't work elsewhere. Flames have Frolik, Lazar, Chiasson, Ferland that can all play the right side. They need a number 1 RW and Brouwer isn't that. He is not a good option to take any of the other cheaper options we have therefore it is best he moves on. The Flames are also bumping against the cap with needs to address so freeing up that salary that runs beyond the Tkachuk extension makes sense right?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The guys on Fan 960 this morning suggested giving up an asset like Gillies to move Brouwer. This may have been perhaps the dumbest thing I will hear today.

I swear they say the most ######ed garbage just to get people talking about them. As they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The guys on Fan 960 this morning suggested giving up an asset like Gillies to move Brouwer. This may have been perhaps the dumbest thing I will hear today.

If pundits are to be believed, it is going to be expensive for LV to take a bad contract.

[Toonage]

No player on that kind of deal warrants giving up a top prospect just to move the contract.

Also the Fan 960 gets what they want. We're talking about it.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He is not a fit on this team which is why I suggest he moves on. Just because you don't work here doesn't mean you can't work elsewhere. Flames have Frolik, Lazar, Chiasson, Ferland that can all play the right side. They need a number 1 RW and Brouwer isn't that. He is not a good option to take any of the other cheaper options we have therefore it is best he moves on. The Flames are also bumping against the cap with needs to address so freeing up that salary that runs beyond the Tkachuk extension makes sense right?

Players have poor years and bounce back all the time. Brouwer just had his worst year as an NHLer, I'm not so sure the "fit" is the problem. The guy has "fit" on every team he has been on except this one? That doesn't seem odd to you? Odds are, there is something more that we aren't privy to. Your suggestion of giving up an asset to get rid of him, in my opinion, is downright stupid.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If pundits are to be believed, it is going to be expensive for LV to take a bad contract.

Flames don't need Brouwer's contract off the books so badly that they would give up a prospect like Gillies to get rid of it.

Even if they end up keeping Brouwer I doubt he has another sub 30 point season.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Flames don't need Brouwer's contract off the books so badly that they would give up a prospect like Gillies to get rid of it.

Even if they end up keeping Brouwer I doubt he has another sub 30 point season.

Oh I don't disagree. Just relaying what I have heard people talking about what is coming out of LV.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Players have poor years and bounce back all the time. Brouwer just had his worst year as an NHLer, I'm not so sure the "fit" is the problem. The guy has "fit" on every team he has been on except this one? That doesn't seem odd to you? Odds are, there is something more that we aren't privy to. Your suggestion of giving up an asset to get rid of him, in my opinion, is downright stupid.

You are just speculating that there is more than meets the eye but you have no idea just throwing crap at the wall to justify his poor season.

Maybe Brouwer bounces back maybe he doesn't. I don't see a fit with his salary on the Flames so if we send a 2nd rounder to Vegas to take him off our hands I don't think it is stupid. The Flames need that cap space as you likely know there is not a ton of cap room and several areas needing upgrades. Backlund is due a raise next summer and if Brouwer's $4.5M is still on the books it might be tough to keep him.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You are just speculating that there is more than meets the eye but you have no idea just throwing crap at the wall to justify his poor season.

Maybe Brouwer bounces back maybe he doesn't. I don't see a fit with his salary on the Flames so if we send a 2nd rounder to Vegas to take him off our hands I don't think it is stupid. The Flames need that cap space as you likely know there is not a ton of cap room and several areas needing upgrades. Backlund is due a raise next summer and if Brouwer's $4.5M is still on the books it might be tough to keep him.

The Flames don't "need" that cap space right now. Teams move contracts regularly, by the time that space is "needed" they will either move Brouwer or someone else out. Players have bad years, giving up assets to dump them after a year is extremely short sighted and on top of that send a bad message to anyone the Flames want t sign in the future.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You are just speculating that there is more than meets the eye but you have no idea just throwing crap at the wall to justify his poor season.

Maybe Brouwer bounces back maybe he doesn't. I don't see a fit with his salary on the Flames so if we send a 2nd rounder to Vegas to take him off our hands I don't think it is stupid. The Flames need that cap space as you likely know there is not a ton of cap room and several areas needing upgrades. Backlund is due a raise next summer and if Brouwer's $4.5M is still on the books it might be tough to keep him.

Backlund's raise can easily come from the $5.35 million coming off next summer with Bouma and Stajan's contracts expiring.

Flames do not need to dump Brouwer, this off season or next.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

The Flames don't "need" that cap space right now. Teams move contracts regularly, by the time that space is "needed" they will either move Brouwer or someone else out. Players have bad years, giving up assets to dump them after a year is extremely short sighted and on top of that send a bad message to anyone the Flames want t sign in the future.

I think that is a fair point (regarding players signing here in the future)

I see an opportunity to really improve the team without Brouwer's contract that is not a fit. Taking Brouwer away allows the Flames to spend on a goalie if they so choose and upgrade the number 4 D spot beyond Stone (Alzner perhaps?)

It also makes signing Backlund, Tkachuk, and maybe even Bennett's third contract easier. If Brouwer doesn't bounce back that deal does become unmovable so this could be the lone instance where the Flames can dump that salary without taking back any in return. I just rather play it safe and move on now than roll the dice he bounces back. Obviously you disagree and that is fine

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Backlund's raise can easily come from the $5.35 million coming off next summer with Bouma and Stajan's contracts expiring.

Flames do not need to dump Brouwer, this off season or next.

Backlunds raise should come primarily between Mason Raymond buy-out and Bouma.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Backlunds raise should come primarily between Mason Raymond buy-out and Bouma.

Yes, between the three (Stajan/Bouma/Raymond buyout) there would be $6.4 million extra, of which probably only $1.5-$2.5 would go towards a Backlund extension leaving several million behind for other things, like a Tkachuk extension.

Flames cap situation is actually pretty good, even if you allot $6-7 million for goaltending going forward.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think that is a fair point (regarding players signing here in the future)

I see an opportunity to really improve the team without Brouwer's contract that is not a fit. Taking Brouwer away allows the Flames to spend on a goalie if they so choose and upgrade the number 4 D spot beyond Stone (Alzner perhaps?)

It also makes signing Backlund, Tkachuk, and maybe even Bennett's third contract easier. If Brouwer doesn't bounce back that deal does become unmovable so this could be the lone instance where the Flames can dump that salary without taking back any in return. I just rather play it safe and move on now than roll the dice he bounces back. Obviously you disagree and that is fine

Absolutely worst case scenario Brouwer could be bought out in the final year.

Right now the Flames have almost $22 million in free cap space without any cap increase and 13 players signed. Bennett, Ferland, Lazar and Chiasson should easily cost less than $6 million total and let's go on the high end and say we spend another $7 million on goalies. That leaves $9 million to sign a 3 defensemen, re-signing Stone should cost 4 or less. Replacing Engelland shouldn't cost the 3 he's being paid this year, so at worst we have $2 million to sign a #6 defenseman and Versteeg replacement, both of which IMO can be replaced internally.

Next year another 10+ million expires with Backlund being the only bigger name to re-sign.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Absolutely worst case scenario Brouwer could be bought out in the final year.

Right now the Flames have almost $22 million in free cap space without any cap increase and 13 players signed. Bennett, Ferland, Lazar and Chiasson should easily cost less than $6 million total and let's go on the high end and say we spend another $7 million on goalies. That leaves $9 million to sign a 3 defensemen, re-signing Stone should cost 4 or less. Replacing Engelland shouldn't cost the 3 he's being paid this year, so at worst we have $2 million to sign a #6 defenseman and Versteeg replacement, both of which IMO can be replaced internally.

Next year another 10+ million expires with Backlund being the only bigger name to re-sign.

So you basically have the Flames at the cap again next year, re-signing our desired free agents and paying for a true #1 goalie.

I think you're about right.

So the Flames spent their big money UFA dollars on Brouwer, as its not likely they will have enough cap space for a similar type signing next year.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So you basically have the Flames at the cap again next year, re-signing our desired free agents and paying for a true #1 goalie.

I think you're about right.

So the Flames spent their big money UFA dollars on Brouwer, as its not likely they will have enough cap space for a similar type signing next year.

For the time being unless contracts are shed and roster spots are opened, we don't really have room for anyone either. Plus my numbers were also high, the Flames could easily move that money around and allocate it differently than I suggested. I didn't factor expansion in because we simply don't know and the only UFA really worth signing is Oshie and he's likely to get a Lucic-like contract

[Knut]

If the cost is Gillies to move Brouwer you hang onto him and leave him unprotected. If he does not get picked then you hope that lights a fire under his ass and he has a rebound season. Sometimes it takes a full year with a new team to really settle in. You can dump Bouma, Stajan and left Engelland walk if Salary cap is an issue.