The Flames Expansion Draft Protection/Exposure/Exempt Thread

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Troy Brouwer likely to be left unprotected in expansion draft

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hock...xpansion-draft

[IgiTang]

I get the feeling Brouwer has known he was going to be left unprotected hence his play for the most part.. guessing that they didn't strip the A from him as to not embarrass him and to keep the illusion of value and leadership? Purely speculative, but not out of the realm of possible.

None the less, really disappointed by his lack of tenacity and grit and willingness to stick up for teammates this season..

[Toonage]

Not that his play was necessarily strong before but it really fell off a cliff after the hand injury.

[Bingo]

I just wish the guy didn't rush to defend himself at the end of the season by offering up his intangibles.

Those are great for the writers to opine, but when the player ignores his production and pushes the "we made the playoffs", "our PP and PK improved" buttons himself it gives me pause.

He was 9th in PP time and 8th in PK, he wasn't the catalyst, coaching was.

[lazypucker]

That's why I always said that the only possible trade partner for the Flames for Brouwer is perhaps Pittsburg.

They need to move Fleury, and the Flames can take a goalie that needs to be protected (plus they actually need a goaltender). 2 more years at $5.75 (Fleury) vs 3 more years at $4.5 (Brouwer), pretty even there. Plus Brouwer can be exposed and may get picked up.

I say it is a pretty good deal for both sides.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

That's why I always said that the only possible trade partner for the Flames for Brouwer is perhaps Pittsburg.

They need to move Fleury, and the Flames can take a goalie that needs to be protected (plus they actually need a goaltender). 2 more years at $5.75 (Fleury) vs 3 more years at $4.5 (Brouwer), pretty even there. Plus Brouwer can be exposed and may get picked up.

I say it is a pretty good deal for both sides.

But it ignores the fact that the Penguins could get stuck with 3 seasons of Brouwer at $4.5 million. If I'm Rutherford I'm paralyzed at the thought if being stuck with him.

[lazypucker]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

But it ignores the fact that the Penguins could get stuck with 3 seasons of Brouwer at $4.5 million. If I'm Rutherford I'm paralyzed at the thought if being stuck with him.

Or have Murray being taken and being stuck with Fleury for $5.75 million for 2 more seasons.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Or have Murray being taken and being stuck with Fleury for $5.75 million for 2 more seasons.

For that extra million you're "stuck" with a bonafide NHL starting goalie.
With Brouwer.... you're stuck with Brouwer....

[Mass_nerder]

In a perfect world, the Pen's position is that tight. I would imagine that Fleury may be convinced to waive the NMC though. If not, I think the Pens would probably be more than willing to "trade" a fairly high pick, or decent prospect to Vegas so they don't select Murray.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Or have Murray being taken and being stuck with Fleury for $5.75 million for 2 more seasons.

They will have no issues trading Fleury though. You seem to be of the belief the Penguins are stuck with him. The only thing that may make things difficult is his NTC but if he relaxes that then moving him shouldn't be a problem.

[Jason14h]

What if Murray doesn't come back in the playoffs and Pitts goes far.

I think there's a decent chance he waives, and LV passes and hes back with Pitts next season.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I said in another thread somewhere, that after doing a quick mock expansion that I noticed most f the salary I had taken on expired within a year or two, which will have them chasing their tail trying to reach the cap floor for a few seasons. That will certainly increase the likely hood of them doling out some very bad contracts. For that reason I can see them not being scared at all of taking on Brouwer's 3 remaining years. I even fear that they might help the Kings out by taking one of their awful contracts as well, like Brown.

What Vegas is going to be most desperate for is top six players. Easiest way to get them is from the UFA market. Every penny of cap space they free up for teams like the Flames or Kings is going to be spent competing with Vegas on those UFAs.

For example, if Vegas takes Brouwer, we suddenly have the cap space to go after TJ Oshie, who is someone Vegas might also be interested in.

Thus I don't see Vegas helping anyone with their bad contracts, at least not without some really serious sweeteners.

I also don't see a real problem for them to hit the cap floor. There's never a shortage of useful players on the UFA market, and it makes a lot more sense for Vegas to overpay those good players than wasting that money on bottom six guys.

It's the same reason why Flames didn't take on anchor contracts when they had the cap space during the rebuild. Instead they could make good offers to players like Wideman and Hudler.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

What if Murray doesn't come back in the playoffs and Pitts goes far.

I think there's a decent chance he waives, and LV passes and hes back with Pitts next season.

I have heard that Vegas has interest in Fleury but the insider info I have received on Vegas has been hit or miss (family member is friends with someone in the organization).

I don't see Fleury is in a Pens jersey next year unless they win the cup with him and decide to sell high on Murray

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Itse

What Vegas is going to be most desperate for is top six players. Easiest way to get them is from the UFA market. Every penny of cap space they free up for teams like the Flames or Kings is going to be spent competing with Vegas on those UFAs.

For example, if Vegas takes Brouwer, we suddenly have the cap space to go after TJ Oshie, who is someone Vegas might also be interested in.

Thus I don't see Vegas helping anyone with their bad contracts, at least not without some really serious sweeteners.

I also don't see a real problem for them to hit the cap floor. There's never a shortage of useful players on the UFA market, and it makes a lot more sense for Vegas to overpay those good players than wasting that money on bottom six guys.

It's the same reason why Flames didn't take on anchor contracts when they had the cap space during the rebuild. Instead they could make good offers to players like Wideman and Hudler.

Wideman and Hudler were both Feaster signings pre rebuild. I do agree with most of your post though and Vegas will steer clear of the really bad contracts. In fact taking Stajan over Brouwer gives them a player they can likely get a pick at next deadline.

The only thought on Vegas taking Brouwer is if they believe he can get back to thebplayer he has been over the previous 5-6 seasons and last year was a one off

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I just wish the guy didn't rush to defend himself at the end of the season by offering up his intangibles.

Those are great for the writers to opine, but when the player ignores his production and pushes the "we made the playoffs", "our PP and PK improved" buttons himself it gives me pause.

He was 9th in PP time and 8th in PK, he wasn't the catalyst, coaching was.

Yeah I found his comments a little unsettling. Like he knew he was not contributing much and deflected.

Fact is, I try to ignore what anyone says to the media. It rarely reflects what is really going on. I certainly hope the guy knows he needs to be better next year.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Itse

What Vegas is going to be most desperate for is top six players. Easiest way to get them is from the UFA market. Every penny of cap space they free up for teams like the Flames or Kings is going to be spent competing with Vegas on those UFAs.

For example, if Vegas takes Brouwer, we suddenly have the cap space to go after TJ Oshie, who is someone Vegas might also be interested in.

Thus I don't see Vegas helping anyone with their bad contracts, at least not without some really serious sweeteners.

I also don't see a real problem for them to hit the cap floor. There's never a shortage of useful players on the UFA market, and it makes a lot more sense for Vegas to overpay those good players than wasting that money on bottom six guys.

It's the same reason why Flames didn't take on anchor contracts when they had the cap space during the rebuild. Instead they could make good offers to players like Wideman and Hudler.

Not sure I see the logic is giving out your own terrible contract instead of taking one of your own. They can go give TJ Oshie a Milan Lucic type contract and have a boat anchor contract in 3-4 years when they are ready to compete or take on a Stajan or Brouwer type deal that ends when they are competitive and get other assets in return for doing it.

EDIT: Stajan/Brouwer are used here as examples, I'm sure other teams have their own contracts they'd like to offload.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Not sure I see the logic is giving out your own terrible contract instead of taking one of your own. They can go give TJ Oshie a Milan Lucic type contract and have a boat anchor contract in 3-4 years when they are ready to compete or take on a Stajan or Brouwer type deal that ends when they are competitive and get other assets in return for doing it.

EDIT: Stajan/Brouwer are used here as examples, I'm sure other teams have their own contracts they'd like to offload.

Why would anyone take a guaranteed bad contract when they have a chance to make a good signing? Yes, there are good UFA signings. See for example Hudler and Frolik. Not every signing is Brouwer or Raymond.

Also as I said, there's a big difference in overpaying someone like Wideman, who despite being overpaid was still very useful most of his time here. A bottom six winger like Brouwer is pretty much the last role you want to overpay for.

Maybe they back up the truck for Shattenkirk, who would essentially be their first franchise player. That's something you can overpay for.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Troy Brouwer likely to be left unprotected in expansion draft

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hock...xpansion-draft

In other breaking news, the sky is blue, grass is green and water is wet

[Calgary4LIfe]

If Vegas is going to take a bad contract from the Flames, it is going to be Stajan. He is entering the last year of his deal (so easier for LV to flip him at the deadline for something), his cap hit is 3.125 but his real salary this year is only 2.5, and from all accounts he is immensely liked by his teammates. He is also good defensively and isn't a bad player.

McPhee would have to be in-love with Brouwer for him to select him I think. Flames would need to add a sweetener for sure in my opinion. That sweetener will not consist of a Flames' goalie - LV will probably have the best tandem in the league and will probably have a good AHL tandem to boot as well after everything is said and done.

Poirier is on a personal leave, so I would be shocked if LV took him. Shinkaruk is a maybe - he doesn't scream NHL future player to me, so will they really select him? None of the Flames' D (outside of Stone) is really worth selecting either - guys like Bartkowski, Kulak, Wotherspoon - these are all available on the waiver wire every season.

You have to think opportunity cost here. Vegas is not getting a good asset from Calgary. That can work well in Calgary's favor too though. Maybe since there is literally nothing really tempting for Vegas to select, and since they have to select somebody, it wouldn't take too much to entice them to take a Bouma. Stajan is already enticing enough with his salary requirements this year (no guarantee Vegas is going to make money this year, so being able to save real salary this year can help, even if it isn't too much). Taking Brouwer, however, is a long-term commitment, and I still think McPhee has to be absolutely in love with Brouwer to select him. If I was Vegas, I would be demanding at least a 2nd round pick, and even then I am not sure that is enticing enough to commit that many dollars for 3 years.

[Vinny01]

I wonder if people aren't just overreacting to one bad year. Troy Brouwer was traded for a first round pick in 2011 (doesn't mean a ton today) and a couple seasons ago he was moved for Oshie another great asset.

His poor season with the Flames hurt his value but is everyone in the hockey world writing him off as an albatross? 3 years isn't a ton of term for an expansion team and he is making less than $5M. I think there is a reasonable chance the Flames can convince Vegas to take Brouwer even if they have to toss in a sweetener to get it done.

Having said that Stajan also makes a lot of sense for Vegas. I just holding out hope that Brouwer is the one that moves on. If not I really hope he bounces back