[PGT] WCQF Game 4: Ducks 3 - Flames 1; Anaheim wins series in sweep

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Bartkowski is actually under contract next year, although it is a two-way, he has the same Gulutzan virtual immunity that kept rr a quarter of this season.

Grossman played 3 games for the Flames.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by madmike

Bartkowski only played about 10 minutes so I don't think he was being over-used. He was absolutely awful though. His numbers given his playing time and the quality of opposition are downright brutal. Like Elliott though, there's zero chance he's back next year, so there is a positive.

I was trying to say that the amount of damage he does to the team in his 10 minutes is incredible. he's overused in the sense that he does not belong in an NHL lineup. a liability since the day they signed him.

Unfortunately, he's signed for another season. We can only hope treliving waives him quickly into training camp or he might consign our young d to the press box again. engelland better be gone too

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Sorry, but that's idiotic.

In no way is it possible that 100+ picks were right to pass before drafting Gaudreau.

He's put up three sixty point seasons and is a repeat NHL all-star.

He's never going to be "useless".
.

That's outright ridiculous.

That is your opinion but against larger hard hittin teams he has been ineffective.

The bolded is the worst defence of a player ever no matter who it is. The allstar game means #### all.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

That is your opinion but against larger hard hittin teams he has been ineffective.

What does him struggling in some games have to do with your suggestions he's somehow going to be rendered "useless" and that teams that passed on him will be validated as being right?

You can make a point without the ridiculous hyperbole .

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

What does him struggling in some games have to do with your suggestions he's somehow going to be rendered "useless" and that teams that passed on him will be validated as being right?

You can make a point without the ridiculous hyperbolic .

I said he was ineffective against the larger physical playing teams . no hyerbolic at all. How did this series go for him? Seems right on point . The blues are another team who do well against him . those some games you point to may not matter in the regular season but clearly are a big thing when it comes to playing the same team over and over in a playoff situation.

[tsquared1967]

Game 1:

Bad deflection by Engelland on the 1st goal.
Bad dump in the Anaheim zone for a change by Engelland (right to Gibson or it would have been icing instead) that lead to 3-0 breakaway and the 2nd goal.
Stone doesn't drop down for a block and the puck goes between his legs and then between Elliott's body and left arm for the winning goal.

Game 2:

Horrible goaltending by Elliott on the 1st goal. NHL goaltenders make the save 100% of the time.
Brodie misses the opporturnity to clear the puck behind the net leading to the second goal.
Bouma skate redirects a pass attempt into the net for the winning goal.

Game 3:

Bad rebound in front of the net instead of directing it into the corner like NHL goalies do resulted in the 1st goal.
While Perry was punching Flames players on the bench and not being penalized for it, Elliott gives up soft goal.
High stick goal.
Total miss with glove hand by Elliott for a goal.
Elliott kick saves right off Stone in front of the net and into the goal for the winning goal.

Game 4:

Horrible goal to give up by Elliott.


Bad bounces, bad positioning, bad refs and bad goaltending resulted in a sweep by the Ducks.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I don't think it is bizarre at all. The teams didn't pass on him because of his talent. They passed on him because he was soft .

Thia was a prime example this series how a larger physical team can shut him down. Not the firt big team to do so either. The blues also managed to do this many times over the last few years. The freaking oilers thos year even figured ot out thia year to hit him hard and often.

Not that bizarre to figure this out as a fan.

As entertaining as Johnny is, and as much as I love watching him dangle, I have to agree with this. The regular seasons are getting softer and softer, but playoff hockey is still heavy and physical. Guys like St. Louis and Fleury were built like little brick poop houses. They were small, but dense, solid, and hard to knock off their feet. Johnny is small, and slight. Once he's smothered, he just doesn't have any power or strength to do anything. It sucks, but it's reality. He isn't built for playoff hockey. He uses boys sticks with the same flex 12 year olds use for gods sake.

Unless he can get strong, dense and explosive, this playoff dissapearing act will be the norm.

[calgaryboy]

I am really, really down now. In radio in Czech republic. Must work, I would love to use a day-off but I can ´t. My sad face is now in front of the monitor with some CP stuff. I want to write 2 things.

1)I was not a fan of GG at the beginning of the season. But I like him now very much. Under him we play the best system I have seen the Flames play in last decade, system, that is built for PO and the system which can bring us to a promise land one time. Maybe as early as next season. I think an objective fan must see that we are now really good hockey club, with really good system. If not for beyond ultrapathetic PO performance by Moose, we would be leading 3:1 now, maybe it would be even our sweep! For me, the only difference was the goalie department, nothing else. So I am not on a board with those calling for GG head. I realy hope he will stay!!!I am proud of the players, they did not quit and fought till the bitter end.

2) If we get finally, finallyyyyyyyyyyyyy solid goaltending next season, I have no doubt we will make PO again and we will be lucky all PO. Because we used our tons of unluck this PO, that pile of unluck is totally full now, there is no more room. That pile of luck next to this huge pile is totally empty. And we will use this luck pile next season, next PO! Because this series, for me, was unbeliavable, much better team lost 0:4. That sounds crazy, but that is the reality.

Flames Forever!!!!!!!!

Greetings from Czech republic!

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Gaudreau was terrible all series.

And 2/3 of the season.

I wonder if he's going through things in life and hasn't had his mind in hockey. Never seen a guy dominate so many levels, look to be steadily improving then just hit a wall for months of a season and look frustrated almost every night. He used to play a step ahead of all the bigger players, hence why they couldn't slow him down. Now he's playing at their speed and can't get around them for his life.

He looked like a 3rd liner this series. Bennett, on the other hand and who plays on the third line, was far better.

[debil]

Flames need more talent and skills. Particularly top-end talent. If you lose 4-0 it's not just bad luck, refing, bad goaltending, lack of experience or other popular excuses.

We don't have enough talent, first line is not dominating other teams. first line scored ZERO 5on5 goals in this series. This says a lot.

We don't have clutch players. Going into playoffs i was hoping i would see some clutch things from guys like Bennet, Tkachuk but they just disappeared.

It's not the end of the world, we made the playoffs which is always good and it could be much worse. I just don't share the optimism that young players would be only better and improving over time. It's not working like this. You can see even in the young age whether guy is a clutch or not.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I said he was ineffective against the larger physical playing teams . no hyerbolic at all. How did thos series go for him? Seems right on point . Thw blues are another team who do well against him . those some games you poont to may not matter in the regular season bit clearly are a big thing when it comes to playing the same team over and over in a playoff situation.

You're not even comprehending what people are taking issue with here.

You said:

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

He better learn to tak hits or learn how to avoid them agian otherwise he is proving to people who passed him over at the draft right...

and

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

He needs to now adjust and play better when people lay the body on him or he becomes useless.

which is outright ridiculous.


He would just about unequivocally go #1 overall in a redraft of his draft year. Top 3 for sure. Your suggestion 29 teams could somehow be proven right that he's "too small" is asinine.

As is suggesting he could ever be "useless".

Yes, he has struggled in some games against bigger teams. No one would dispute that. But he's young, and he's shown in games vs. LA he can be effective in tougher games.

But none of that changes the fact you can simply suggest he needs to be better in physical contests without the asinine hyperbolic quotes above. It's just not necessary to take it to that level to try and make a point.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by debil

Flames need more talent and skills. Particularly top-end talent. If you lose 4-0 it's not just bad luck, refing, bad goaltending, lack of experience or other popular excuses.

We don't have enough talent, first line is not dominating other teams. first line scored ZERO 5on5 goals in this series. This says a lot.

We don't have clutch players. Going into playoffs i was hoping i would see some clutch things from guys like Bennet, Tkachuk but they just disappeared.

It's not the end of the world, we made the playoffs which is always good and it could be much worse. I just don't share the optimism that young players would be only better and improving over time. It's not working like this. You can see even in the young age whether guy is a clutch or not.

I have so much trouble deciding if you're a closet troll or just silly. Either way. Wrong. You're tiresome.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by debil

Flames need more talent and skills. Particularly top-end talent. If you lose 4-0 it's not just bad luck, refing, bad goaltending, lack of experience or other popular excuses.

I'm as frustrated about this series as anyone but... out of curiousity, are we safe to assume your comments apply equally to the 1995 Red Wings?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

You're not even comprehending what people are taking issue with here.

You said:



and



which is outright ridiculous.


He would just about unequivocally go #1 overall in a redraft of his draft year. Top 3 for sure. Your suggestion 29 teams could somehow be proven right that he's "too small" is asinine.

As is suggesting he could ever be "useless".

Yes, he has struggled in some games against bigger teams. No one would dispute that. But he's young, and he's shown in games vs. LA he can be effective in tougher games.

But none of that changes the fact you can simply suggest he needs to be better in physical contests without the asinine hyperbolic quotes above. It's just not necessary to take it to that level to try and make a point.

So your sayimg I'm right he plays badly vs bigger teams but I'm also wrong since he had one amazing game vs L.A a few years ago?

not sure what your trying to do anymore. Seems like sleep is best unless you need more time to vent at me for the lost series?

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

So your sayimg I'm right he plays badly vs bigger teams but I'm also wrong since he had one amazing game vs L.A a few years ago?

not sure what your trying to do anymore. Seems like sleep is best unless you need more time to vent at me for the lost series?

You don't seem capable of having a discussion.

I really can't be any more clear.

You said he needs to be better against bigger teams, and then threw out ridiculous, hyperbolic notions to try to qualify it.

People took issue with it, and you just pretended you never said them.

There's really no use talking with someone like you. It's just not necessary to make over-dramatic, sensationalized comments to try and make a point.

[djsFlames]

I liked/am encouraged by:

-Tkachuk
-Backlund
-Monahan
-D.Hamilton
-Giordano
-Versteeg
-Ferland
-Hathaway
-Lazar (over 5 games)
-Gillies (debut)

I was lukewarm on/give merely a pass to:

-Frolik
-F.Hamilton
-Bennett (improved in playoffs)
-Stone
-Engelland
-Bartkowski
-Johnson

I was discouraged and concerned by:

-Gaudreau
-Brodie
-Brouwer
-Wideman
-Elliott (.880 in the playoffs killed us)
-Bouma
-Stajan
-Chiasson at times, other times was a pass

I think they need to trade/ship out/not re-sign 2-3 skaters from that third group. I'd consider re-signing one goaltender, but if it were up to me I'd probably lean towards letting both walk.

Probably the only player I would consider moving Gaudreau for is the other Johnny Hockey - Tavares.

I think a retool may be in order given the two playoff exits vs a gritty team. It's about getting a little bigger, tougher without losing skill.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

You don't seem capable of having a discussion.

I really can't be any more clear.

You said he needs to be better against bigger teams, and then threw out ridiculous, hyperbolic notions to try to qualify it.

People took issue with it, and you just pretended you never said them.
There's really no use talking with someone like you. It's just not necessary to make over-dramatic, sensationalized comments to try and make a point.

I never said didn't say any thing. So far outside of a few games his rookie year he is useless against the bigger physical teams. Where is the hyperbole?.
You don't think teams draft based on size not talent for these situations?

I never once said he didn't have talent but you look at these types of series and it is not hard to see his size is a factor.

Hard to argue he needs to adjust his game and become stronger and bulkier to utilize that talent. If he doesn't then him being too small is very relevant to the conversation at hand.

FFS Thompson had more goals than he did because he had the size to out muscle and drive to the net with phycical play.

Thw regular season is one thing but you need to be a physical player in the playoffs.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

And 2/3 of the season.

I wonder if he's going through things in life and hasn't had his mind in hockey. Never seen a guy dominate so many levels, look to be steadily improving then just hit a wall for months of a season and look frustrated almost every night. He used to play a step ahead of all the bigger players, hence why they couldn't slow him down. Now he's playing at their speed and can't get around them for his life.

He looked like a 3rd liner this series. Bennett, on the other hand and who plays on the third line, was far better.

Or other teams have just figured him out. I can sit and watch the game now and predict accurately every single time they try that drop back, let Johnny carry it in from his own blue line play they do every power play he's on the ice. It's ridiculously predictable, and once it's predictable, it's easy to shut down. He's super creative around the net and in the slot, but there is only so many ways he can get in that deep. And it seems like teams are just flushing him to the outside and smothering him before he gets in too deep. He's not ever gonna power his way through so the options he has are limited.

If may be as simple as the book is out on him now, and the jig is up.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I never said didn't say any thing.

This sentence alone sums up your entire take in the last few pages to a tee.

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

Where is the hyperbole?

For the 3rd time, suggesting that 29 teams would be proven "right" for passing on him because of his size.

Despite the fact he has room to grow in games against bigger teams, he's a tremendous talent that any team on the league would take. To the tune of him easily going top 3 (and probably first) in a re-draft.

So to answer your question - for the third time- your suggestion all the teams that passed on him will ever be "proven right" is the ridiculous hyperbole.

Your inability to understand this really speaks to the usefulness of continuing to discuss this with you.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I never said didn't say any thing. So far outside of a few games his rookie year he is useless against the bigger physical teams. Where is the hyperbole?.

For starters, which team qualifies as "the bigger physical teams"? Are the Arizona Coyotes an example of a bigger physical team? What about the WInnipeg Jets?

Or, Let me guess, this criteria only applies to the 100+ point playoff teams that just happen to have a few big players, probably forwards who rarely even have any major duties WRT Gaudreau?

Teams that probably have strong team defensive play?

Teams that have great sticks in the lanes?

Teams that probably have elite goaltending?

Teams that get leads by the end of the 2nd period on our shoddy goaltending and start playing classic shutdown 3rd periods?

Teams that are basically just the Anaheim Ducks?

So maybe you're making causations where there are none? And maybe that's why your comments come across as gross hyperbole?