Alberta business livid with energy savings program contract going to Ontario company

[polak]

This seems like a good thread for the competition bureau to source leads from.

You can't do "whatever you want" when sourcing products from suppliers in the private sector. There are a lot of things that are off limits.

[Locke]

I think the outrage really stems from the attitude that this program has really become:

"How can we make the ridiculous more preposterous?"

"Whats stupider than changing Albertan's lightbulbs for free? Hmm....thats a tough one....how about we get Ontarians to do it? Genius!!"

Dig up stupid!

[dubc80]

Originally Posted by polak

This seems like a good thread for the competition bureau to source leads from.

You can't do "whatever you want" when sourcing products from suppliers in the private sector. There are a lot of things that are off limits.

Well of course not. I'm not suggesting bid shopping or anything of the like. That's illegal. I'm just saying you have way more flexibility in how you set up your evaluation in the private sector and it is under a lot less scrutiny.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Kind of fascinating how many conservatives have abandoned the value of a free market in favour of protectionism even on a provincial level.

Not that you couldn't develop a conspiracy theory where this Ontario company was questionably chosen, but lines like "it should have been an Albertan company" don't make much sense to me.

I thought they would go the protectionist route, because that's exactly what they did for the Alberta craft breweries.

The NDP increased taxes to $1.25/litre for all beer sold in Alberta, but they subsidize all the Alberta based breweries through the "Alberta Small Brewers Development Program".

Definitely not a free market scenario.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

I thought they would go the protectionist route, because that's exactly what they did for the Alberta craft breweries.

The NDP increased taxes to $1.25/litre for all beer sold in Alberta, but they subsidize all the Alberta based breweries through the "Alberta Small Brewers Development Program".

Definitely not a free market scenario.

Socialism generally favours protectionism, which is why I found it surprising that so many conservatives were calling for it (in the form of only giving this contract to an Alberta company, when conservatives, historically, favour free market).

[edn88]

So, if my house is already stocked with LEDs, low flow shower heads and a programmable thermostat, what's in it for me?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by edn88

So, if my house is already stocked with LEDs, low flow shower heads and a programmable thermostat, what's in it for me?

The feeling that you've saved your own tiny corner of the universe from evil?

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by edn88

So, if my house is already stocked with LEDs, low flow shower heads and a programmable thermostat, what's in it for me?

The warm smugness of knowing you have saved the world. And taxes.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Socialism generally favours protectionism, which is why I found it surprising that so many conservatives were calling for it (in the form of only giving this contract to an Alberta company, when conservatives, historically, favour free market).

I am all for getting the most for the least out of the tax money i am providing, however, I want to be sure this contract is doing that.

[Clarkey]

Goddamn morons wasting our money again.

I am now paying (in a roundabout way) to have some putz from an Ontario Company come through my house counting light bulbs who will then come back and screw in light bulbs. How many NDP f$&@ers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

I'm swapping out all my LEDs and programmable thermostat and will take my turn at the trough and at least get some stuff out of the giant waste.

Due to the uncertainty or how many households will partake this was likely awarded as a cost plus and will be a blank cheque for ecofitt with no incentive to execute efficiently. This boondoggle will hopefully be the final nail in the coffin for the NDP.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Where did the idea it is a Ecofitt brand light bulb that's the issue? The only thing I saw was in the article where the technical term used was "do-dad". He also didn't mention Ecofitt branding, only that the specific "do-dad"s supplier was Ecofitt. Maybe it's a Chinese made shower head that Ecofitt is the Canadian supplier for? Maybe it is a proprietary Ecofitt thermostat.

The point is for me it's a long stretch to go from they are the only supplier I could find for a "do-dad" and the RFP was biased in favour of Ecofitt. Sounds a whole lot more like sour grapes from a guy who lost the bid and is using anger against the NDP to get some air time.

It's lights, shower heads and other "do-dads". You can walk into any Canadian Tire, Rona, Home Depot, etc and get this stuff and most of it isn't Ecofitt. Can the NDP at least explain why any of the equipment had to be Ecofitt? If they have something proprietary then please explain what it is and why it's required? As has been mentioned private companies can specify anything they want, manipulate, and make it impossible for most suppliers to win the bid but this isn't a private company here and it appears the NDP made this difficult for any company to competitively price themselves against Ecofitt.

At the end of the day if everything was apples to apples and Ecofitt had the lowest bid then it's hard to complain as a taxpayer but when you hear about the government mandating what is very general equipment from a single supplier that happens to be the one that won the bid then something smells. If they have a good reason they specified the equipment then I can be swayed but until they disclose that I'm going to remain a skeptic.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by dubc80

I'd also be interested in viewing the RFP for this. Public ones are usually posted online, but not sure you could find this as its old and already awarded.

Found the RFP, but some of the key details are missing probably because its already been awarded as you said.

https://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIE...VDxmheIw%3d%3d

[para transit fellow]

Has any Alberta business announced that they had responded to this RFP?

Sometimes these RFP's don't get a lot of response. One of our municipal partners just bought a wheelchair accessible minivan. Although there are 6 possible suppliers, only one envelope arrived before the deadline.

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Found the RFP, but some of the key details are missing probably because its already been awarded as you said.

https://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIE...VDxmheIw%3d%3d

I like how there are some performance criteria in the RFP

The Program is expected to launch March 27, 2017 and is expected to achieve a total of 258,000 GJ of energy savings (247,000 GJ from single family homes and 11,000 from apartments and condominiums) by March 31, 2018. In order for the contractor to achieve success in program delivery the contractor must achieve 100 per cent of the overall target. The overall achievement must be comprised of savings from a minimum of 90 percent of each zones target as provided in Appendix G.

[Fuzz]

I like how there is a secret initiative for the Government to get in our homes and catalogue our guns.

In addition, data collected while in the home will provide Energy Efficiency Alberta with valuable insights into the condition of existing building stock and establishing baselines necessary for future program design.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

why would they? This isn't a permanent business by any stretch. Its a limited term contract. They're going to come in and hire some workers, pound through this contract as quickly and cheaply as possible and pray they didn't under bid. And then when its done, they'll fire everyone, close up shop and leave.

There's no real long term business plan here, and no real reason to open full time.

The only reason why they'll stay if when the contract expires is if another one is offered, but I doubt they open a business here its a unnecessary cost.

If they have employees in Alberta, they have a permanent establishment in Alberta and will allocate a percentage of their income here based on revenues and salaries and wages.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

How many NDP f$&@tards does it take to screw in a light bulb?

None. The government implements a crazy tax on everything under the sun to pay some Ontario company to screw them in for you.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

If they have employees in Alberta, they have a permanent establishment in Alberta and will allocate a percentage of their income here based on revenues and salaries and wages.

Except looking at it, they're not hiring employee's in Alberta, they're hiring contractors on a fixed term of a year. they're not hiring payroll people in Alberta, or managers or sales people. They're looking at people to screw in bulbs and they're looking at people to manage that process on contract.

Basically that warehouse is probably also temporary. Once the contract is done and all the bulbs are screwed in, there's not a business model to keep them here, especially since a large percentage of their business appears to be selling stuff on line out of probably a Ontario Warehouse.

[Jason14h]

Basically that warehouse is probably also temporary. Once the contract is done and all the bulbs are screwed in, there's not a business model to keep them here, especially since a large percentage of their business appears to be selling stuff on line out of probably a Ontario Warehouse.

Come on. I'm sure they will get another contract to hand out green bins or clean people furnaces on the tax payers $$!

[CaptainCrunch]

That's not their business model bra. Screwin in lightbulbs and pluggin in powerbars bra.

Maybe install a couple of thermos Stats whatever those are bra

Lightbulbs, powerbars paycheck bra.