Alberta business livid with energy savings program contract going to Ontario company

[CaptainCrunch]

looking at their website, it looks like the hires in Alberta are mainly project coordinators and the installers, they're not adding any infrastructure out here. also the PC positions are described as 12 month contractor roles and the installers as independent.

[polak]

Or the Alberta contractors bids came in so high that it was better cost wise even if the corporate tax paid on this contract goes to Ontario...

It's also not the Governments job to look over Alberta Contractors inventory practices. I'd hope that no contractor relies on changing lightbulbs and showerheads as their core business.

[peter12]

Government procurement in Canada is just like the Mafia with bureaucrats.

[Chingas]

The issue as I see it is staged tenders where there is a predetermined outcome. Please explain to me why all light bulbs must be sourced from this one company? As ridiculous as it is that the $100 a month increase in my gas bill is going to installing ####ing light bulbs in every house in Alberta, I can only see that the NDP is starting to publicly show its motivation.

Like mentioned earlier I sure would like to know the connection between this company and the NDP, whether it be contributions or personal. And before you NDP apologists come out to play I would be equally critical of any party in this scenario.

I have lived over seas for a long time and I see first hand how corruption in politics creates a slippery slope. Yet at home there are tell tale signs all of the time and we stick our collective heads in the sand. I can't stand corporate manipulation of public policy and decision making. The government is spending our money, not theirs, yet they talk down to or through us like we should have no say in things.

This is our money people, not the government's. Don't forget that.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by belsarius

What a non-starter of a complain story. Did everyone just gloss over the part where they are starting up a Calgary warehouse and hiring 70 people? Do you think that they are going to ship all these people from Ontario in to do the job and send them home on the weekends?

Yes it is an Ontario based company, but there are tonnes of companies headquartered in other places operating in Alberta. They won the RFP, they had the "do-dads" and they could do it at the lowest price and will employ Albertans and they will lease a building in Alberta to do it.

Seriously, just yelling at clouds again.

The question of whether or not the RFP process was rigged in favor of Ecofitt should be addressed. If they mandated that products had to be ones that Ecofitt was supplying, then it's pretty clear cut that the government wanted Ecofitt to get the work. If they only specified parameters that the products had to meet, then it's a non-issue.

If it was rigged, it should be shown why Ecofitt was specifically chosen for preferential treatment and why the appearance of a competitive bid process was needed if the vendor had already been decided.

[PepsiFree]

Kind of fascinating how many conservatives have abandoned the value of a free market in favour of protectionism even on a provincial level.

Not that you couldn't develop a conspiracy theory where this Ontario company was questionably chosen, but lines like "it should have been an Albertan company" don't make much sense to me.

[Resolute 14]

A rigged bidding system is not free market, Pepsi.

[polak]

I too would like to hear an explanation for why the one companies light bulbs were the mandate.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

A rigged bidding system is not free market, Pepsi.

I'm going to need some evidence beyond "one guy said so" before there's any real indication it was rigged, Reso.

[I_H8_Crawford]

I'm surprised that people are surprised by the "rigged bidding system"

This happens everywhere with RFPs - customers have their preferred suppliers, work with them to insert products and wording to allow their preferred supplier to win.

Happens all the time in all industries.

[Robbob]

Redford sure got scrutinized for the selection of the law firm because it seemed kind of shady. I see no reason why they shouldn't be held accountable if they are trying to game the system. I guess we will see if/what they say about it. The problem at a government level is things can be FOIPed so you have to make sure you do things properly. Or at least try.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

I'm surprised that people are surprised by the "rigged bidding system"

This happens everywhere with RFPs - customers have their preferred suppliers, work with them to insert products and wording to allow their preferred supplier to win.

Happens all the time in all industries.

Honestly, I usually don't respond to bids, for the most part they're a waste of time, and I usually tell the prospect that. If I didn't have a hand in writing in and setting landmines I couldn't be bothered.

However on the government side of things, there should be some openness and fairness to all, that's how working with the government works. If the NDP allowed this process to basically become single sourced because they planted specific brand landmines in it for example, then the government needs to answer questions on why, because it goes to the question of integrity. Now I'm sure that the NDP would have no trouble with answering those questions.

[Fuzz]

FWIW I took 2 minutes and searched the NDP donor's list for the past 2 years for the President of Ecofitt's name, and didn't find any donations.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

FWIW I took 2 minutes and searched the NDP donor's list for the past 2 years for the President of Ecofitt's name, and didn't find any donations.

Is that federal?

I would be more curious to see if they donated to the provincial NDP.

Because like Forest and Jenny

Notley and Wynne are like Peas and Carrots.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

FWIW I took 2 minutes and searched the NDP donor's list for the past 2 years for the President of Ecofitt's name, and didn't find any donations.

Is that federal?

I would be more curious to see if they donated to the provincial Liberals.

Because like Forest and Jenny

Notley and Wynne are like Peas and Carrots.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

I'm surprised that people are surprised by the "rigged bidding system"

This happens everywhere with RFPs - customers have their preferred suppliers, work with them to insert products and wording to allow their preferred supplier to win.

Happens all the time in all industries.

As a private business I can make business decisions as to only using Ecofitt lightbulbs because the the president and I are friends, or because I've had a bad experience with other lightbulbs.

As a public government who is spending public money, there needs to be a detailed explanation to the public, whom they got the money from, as to why the Ecofitt product is superior above all others.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Is that federal?

I would be more curious to see if they donated to the provincial NDP.

Because like Forest and Jenny

Notley and Wynne are like Peas and Carrots.

Provincial.
http://efpublic.elections.ab.ca/efPa...MID=FP_7&PID=7

Really awkward to search through though. You have to open each PDF for every time period.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

I'm surprised that people are surprised by the "rigged bidding system"

This happens everywhere with RFPs - customers have their preferred suppliers, work with them to insert products and wording to allow their preferred supplier to win.

Happens all the time in all industries.

Apples to oranges as this isn't an industry it's public usage. If the government has decided on a specific brand they should have to explain why that brand was chosen and what advantages it offers the populace over other brands. As for RFP's for companies there are many reasons that preferred suppliers are used in industry none that would apply to this;

• Company Preference. This is what they use, it works and they see no reason to change. Many decision makers for big companies are scared to death of trying a new product because if it doesn't work as well they are left to answer the bell for that decision.
• Existing facilities use this product and they don't want to stock spare parts for multiple different manufacturer items. Overhead costs are always a big consideration.
• Few companies can meet the companies strict specifications and in their experience products from other vendors are not as reliable.
• Training for employees. New products require new training which can cost $$$.
• Somebody high up in the company is chummy with a salesman for company X.

Since a bulb is a bulb and they all fit the same fixtures so there's nothing about these Ecofitt bulbs (there are other items such as shower heads that would be lower quantity) that separate them from any name brand offering. In fact I'm willing to bet they aren't even the best bulbs available in terms of longevity and/or light pattern, etc. It's pretty obvious that there are some shenanigans going on here.

[dubc80]

Originally Posted by jwslam

As a private business I can make business decisions as to only using Ecofitt lightbulbs because the the president and I are friends, or because I've had a bad experience with other lightbulbs.

As a public government who is spending public money, there needs to be a detailed explanation to the public, whom they got the money from, as to why the Ecofitt product is superior above all others.

Correct. Ive worked procurement on both private and public industry.

You can pretty much do anything in private industry. You can sole source, run legit bids, run slightly biased bids, etc. You only have to answer to your company and "best value" for shareholders. Personal and company reputation and ethics are kind of the only things at stake.

Its a lot more regulated in public industry since you're using tax payers money. Usually you have to be a lot more transparent and cost is usually the #1 deciding factor for evaluation criteria. The process is usually very defined. The scope and requirement is usually very detailed. There is way less emphasis on relationship building, etc.

There's also competitive bidding law in place and companies can sue if they perceive an injustice in the process. Look up Contract A vs Contract B if you want to know more.

Most cases of lawsuits in competitive bidding are against public governmental entities.

I'd also be interested in viewing the RFP for this. Public ones are usually posted online, but not sure you could find this as its old and already awarded.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Apples to oranges as this isn't an industry it's public usage. If the government has decided on a specific brand they should have to explain why that brand was chosen and what advantages it offers the populace over other brands. As for RFP's for companies there are many reasons that preferred suppliers are used in industry none that would apply to this;

• Company Preference. This is what they use, it works and they see no reason to change. Many decision makers for big companies are scared to death of trying a new product because if it doesn't work as well they are left to answer the bell for that decision.
• Existing facilities use this product and they don't want to stock spare parts for multiple different manufacturer items. Overhead costs are always a big consideration.
• Few companies can meet the companies strict specifications and in their experience products from other vendors are not as reliable.
• Training for employees. New products require new training which can cost $$$.
• Somebody high up in the company is chummy with a salesman for company X.

Since a bulb is a bulb and they all fit the same fixtures so there's nothing about these Ecofitt bulbs (there are other items such as shower heads that would be lower quantity) that separate them from any name brand offering. In fact I'm willing to bet they aren't even the best bulbs available in terms of longevity and/or light pattern, etc. It's pretty obvious that there are some shenanigans going on here.

Where did the idea it is a Ecofitt brand light bulb that's the issue? The only thing I saw was in the article where the technical term used was "do-dad". He also didn't mention Ecofitt branding, only that the specific "do-dad"s supplier was Ecofitt. Maybe it's a Chinese made shower head that Ecofitt is the Canadian supplier for? Maybe it is a proprietary Ecofitt thermostat.

The point is for me it's a long stretch to go from they are the only supplier I could find for a "do-dad" and the RFP was biased in favour of Ecofitt. Sounds a whole lot more like sour grapes from a guy who lost the bid and is using anger against the NDP to get some air time.