I think it's time Treliving starts taking some serious heat

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

So to summarize your post, Treliving doesn't really deserve any credit for the current team,

He deserves credit for Frolik, Hamilton, Johnson, Elliott, and Stone. And Gulutzan.

But let's not pretend he is infallible. he has earned more time to be GM but he hasn't proven he can manage the cap. And while Stone is good, there still is a risk we overpay him. Tre's job needs to be to hold this core together, not sign fourth liners for 2nd line money. (while letting excellent and dirt cheap 3rd liners go)

and Brouwer contract will haunt the Flames forever.
Right?.

If a cap squeeze forces us to lose Ferland or Bennett when Tkachuk needs a raise, our window may close just as it opens.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Phaneufenstein

So to summarize your post, Treliving doesn't really deserve any credit for the current team, and Brouwer contract will haunt the Flames forever.
Right?

I don't typically judge posts too harshly, but you're ignoring so many factors here, it's not even close to a fair assessment.

Yah, but you probably aren't properly weighting Grossman and Chaisson. One isn't even with the organization anymore and swas super expensive, the other is still playing a valuable role on this team's 4th line and making pretty minimal salary.

Not sure if you get just how bad those moves are, how they will impact the team for a long long time, and how they are really the only moves (well, and Brouwer) that Treliving has made. Well also he brought in the coach, but now that things are going well, we can't praise him for the coach decision (even though it was ok to critique him for the coach decision 2 games in after losing to the Oilers) because he hasn't coached a playoff series yet, so we need to wait for that, because Darryl Sutter said or something.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

Funny....how winning changes people's perceptions and opinions. One might call it a cure all!

For me, it isnt just the winning, its the nature of the winning.

It isnt: "Finally Monahan and Gaudreau have figured it out!!"

Or: "Gulutzan is playing Hartley's system and we're Back in Black!"

This is the team I think most of us were expecting to see at the start of the season. Not Indomitable obviously, but balanced. Solid D-Corps, good forwards, solid goaltending.

Lets not BS ourselves, they're playing above their heads right now, but they're playing the style and the system that I think most people expected.

But again, make no mistake, by and large that terrible start had this team hopelessly out of a wildcard spot, without this miracle run we'd be dead and buried and yes, there should have been some heat for that.

But....in Treliving we Trust.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He deserves credit for Frolik, Hamilton, Johnson, Elliott, and Stone. And Gulutzan.

But let's not pretend he is infallible. he has earned more time to be GM but he hasn't proven he can manage the cap. And while Stone is good, there still is a risk we overpay him. Tre's job needs to be to hold this core together, not sign fourth liners for 2nd line money.



If a cap squeeze forces us to lose Ferland or Bennett when Tkachuk needs a raise, our window may close just as it opens.

Who said he was infallible?

The recent posts were referencing the brutal, short-sighted over-reactions that started this thread.

Your post on the last page is a nit-picking wet blanket post.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He deserves credit for Frolik, Hamilton, Johnson, Elliott, and Stone. And Gulutzan.

But let's not pretend he is infallible. he has earned more time to be GM but he hasn't proven he can manage the cap. And while Stone is good, there still is a risk we overpay him. Tre's job needs to be to hold this core together, not sign fourth liners for 2nd line money.



If a cap squeeze forces us to lose Ferland or Bennett when Tkachuk needs a raise, our window may close just as it opens.

I think it's totally fair to suggest that Brouwer may end up being a concerning signing. Right now, he's not living up to what we'd hope he'd bring (although I'd say it's still early on that, and many would have said the same for Frolik last year). And if it does, Tre needs to take his lumps for that.

But the money issue you bring about future signings is a bit of smoke and mirrors. If it wasn't Brouwer, it would be someone else the Flames needed to target to fill out the roster, and potentially pay UFA dollars for (not withstanding that we want that signing to work out). Future planning around our key upcoming contracts (as much as I like him, not sure Ferland gets to be in that convo yet) is very much a thing, but let's not pretend going out and signing a UFA that this roster needed was done in isolation with out consideration of the long term planning with this team. Right now you've got your crystal ball out and fabricating issues that don't exist.

If you want to critique Tre right now because Brouwer hasn't been the 2nd line player we'd hopped he'd be when signed, that's fair I guess although could still be premature, but don't extrapolate that into the disaster you are trying to pretend it is at this point simply cause you are lacking real ammo for your argument right now.

[Flash Walken]

Grossmann was an attempt to provide defensive depth while maximising capspace that was in short supply in part due to immovable contracts from the previous administration.

Signing and playing grossmann was a smart move because it gave the flames increased cap flexibility.

A capologist like getbak or opendoor or sureloss can probably explain it more thoroughly than I can, but I doubt adding a salary like Stone is possible without the cap flexibility provided by signing grossmann earlier, and if that by itself is the only positive associated with that signing than it's still a good one in my opinion.

I still think the biggest problem Treliving has made thus far is the term of the Giordano contract, but when you look at the team accomplishments during his tenure compared with basically the entire tenure of the Flames organization post-cup, the guy smells like a bouquet of roses thus far.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I still think the biggest problem Treliving has made thus far is the term of the Giordano contract, but when you look at the team accomplishments during his tenure compared with basically the entire tenure of the Flames organization post-cup, the guy smells like a bouquet of roses thus far.

Gio's contract is fine. You pay, even overpay your core. You don't overpay the help. But if stone gets signed to a 5x5 for instance i will be worried.

[flamesforcup]

He's been good but Granlund has 19 goals this season, that trades not looking good. Same with the Brower signing although i don't blame him for it. Sven trade is still up in the air. Biggest iffy moment for me is the Monahan contract, i feel he's a tad over paid. Other than that nothing too bad.

[flamesforcup]

Giordano contract is more than fine we actually got him for way less than people expected at the time and we weren't going to let him walk.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Let's be real, Ferland, Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Tkachuk, Brodie, Gio... those guys are the reason for the team success. Tod Button and/or no-brainer draft position.

How many contracts do we have that are not signed by Treliving? Stajan and...?

Besides, the increase in standings this season is NOT because the core guys you mentioned are doing significantly better than last season. At least statistically our core has actually been somewhat worse as a group.

What's improved is goaltending, depth and coaching. Elliott, Johnson, Brouwer, Frolik, Versteeg, Chiasson, Engelland, Hamilton, Stone and Bartowski. That's half our roster, most of them brought in this season. When looking for reasons why we're doing better now than last seasons, these are the guys. Plus of course Gulutzan.

Brouwer is the only significant miss at this point, and there's plenty of time for him to earn his contract. You can compare him to Engelland, who looked really overpriced in his first season in Calgary, but has since earned that contract.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Trying to think of a GM or team doesn't have an ugly contract or two, even to "the help". If that's how we judge a General Manager we'll never hire another one.

[starseed]

I think it is unfair to criticize Treliving for the Bob Hartley signing and firing.

He was extended during a season where the players were showing strong progression, in the playoff picture, and showing an amazing mental toughness and ability to bounce back against adversity. He took the team to within an inch of the Western Conference championship round, and he was good enough to earn the Coach of the year accolade.

Instead, he should be praised for not wanting to 'Trump' the team by firing all the remnants of the past administration in an effort to put his own brand on the team. Hartley was a good fit at the time, and he was getting results. Nevertheless, he determined that Hartley's was not the system for the Flames' future success, and pulled the trigger after one unsuccessful season. He has proven that he will not make a hasty decision, but he will make the hard decision when it becomes necessary.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Gio's contract is fine. You pay, even overpay your core. You don't overpay the help. But if stone gets signed to a 5x5 for instance i will be worried.

I guess your worrying is a little early then no?
Given Treliving only gave up a 3rd and a 5th to pick Stone up and that Stone has had a tough year I'd be surprised if he shelled out enough to make him the 3rd highest paid defensemen on our team next year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

He's been good but Granlund has 19 goals this season, that trades not looking good. Same with the Brower signing although i don't blame him for it. Sven trade is still up in the air. Biggest iffy moment for me is the Monahan contract, i feel he's a tad over paid. Other than that nothing too bad.

That's your biggest concern?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

He's been good but Granlund has 19 goals this season, that trades not looking good. Same with the Brower signing although i don't blame him for it. Sven trade is still up in the air. Biggest iffy moment for me is the Monahan contract, i feel he's a tad over paid. Other than that nothing too bad.

Seriously though?

[Roof-Daddy]

Treliving's hand was forced when it comes to Hartley.

My bet is he wanted to get rid of him sooner, but the 2014/15 team massively overachieved and Hartley ended up winning coach of the year. With his contract up at the time BT had no choice but to re-sign him.

My hat is off to BT for quickly correcting that move despite the optics and firing him only a year later, and replacing him with a coach that is clearly taking this team to another level.

[Trailer Fire]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Gio's contract is fine. You pay, even overpay your core. You don't overpay the help. But if stone gets signed to a 5x5 for instance i will be worried.

The fact that you are freaking out over something that hasn't happened, and has no indication of happening, says everything that needs to be said about you.

Where or when has anyone even minutely credible talked about a Stone extension? Never mind a 5x5 extension. You are grasping at straws.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Treliving's hand was forced when it comes to Hartley.

My bet is he wanted to get rid of him sooner, but the 2014/15 team massively overachieved and Hartley ended up winning coach of the year. With his contract up at the time BT had no choice but to re-sign him.

My hat is off to BT for quickly correcting that move despite the optics and firing him only a year later, and replacing him with a coach that is clearly taking this team to another level.

Yeah you always knew Hartley's style was a polar opposite of how Treliving wanted his team to play. I think Treliving wanted desperately to change the coach so he could start getting the system he wanted. Waiting another year would have been a wasted year in Treliving's books.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Seriously though?

Well i said my biggest problem with Treliving. Considering he hasn't done anything really bad so far its the worst i can come up with. Not too worried about it but feel he was overpaid by a few 100k nothing too franchise crushing.

[Vinny01]

I think Treliving should be in the running for executive of the year. He took a team that was bottom 5 in the league, made some major changes, and now they are 10th in the league. He was fully responsible for the $9M goalie mess last year but he also made the changes that have the Flames in a far better position in net for a combined cost of $4.2M. Obviously that number will go up next year but he left himself flexibility to easily make changes in that regard if needed.

The players he added on wing (Tkachuk, Versteeg, Brouwer, Chiasson) have not all been wins but having Tkachuk fall to the Flames and keeping him (Burke mentioned he wanted to send Matty down but Tre wanted to keep him) was a huge win. Versteeg has proven to be a great pickup and while I hope the Brouwer mistake goes away via Vegas he will come in handy during the playoffs.

He had a flawed blueline that I fee he hoped to fix with Russell but that fell through. The deadline moves for Stone and Bart sure look good right now.

The move that he made where I am prepared to eat the most crow (Elliott is a close second) is the Gulutzan hire. I didn't like it from day 1 and was ready to fire him throughout the year. I thought for large chunks of the season this team had no identity and was awful to watch. Even when they went on the run in Nov-Dec I thought it was largely goaltending that drove it and then the 4 straight 4-0 deficits had me convinced this team was going nowhere. Now that he has full buy in from the players I feel I owe Glen an apology. The Flames look like a very good team right now giving us consistent efforts nightly and they can hang with any and all teams in the league.

Trelivings moves this summer involves getting the team to play a puck possession style, improve the goaltending, and become bigger and harder to play against. It didn't look good for portions of the season but as we enter the final 13 games I think he accomplished all 3 of those goals