[Trade] Sens trade Lazar and Kostka to the Flames for a 2nd + Jokipakka

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Well we could, but we're the Flames, and we've hit on one non top 6 first rounder in the last 20 years ! (Backlund)

I still believe Baertschi was a good pick. The organization mishandled his development, and the Canucks are now benefiting from it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I don't think it's fair to compare this to the Baertschi trade. Yes, they were both traded for 2nd round picks. But the year Baertschi was traded it was a fairly strong draft. This season, a 2nd is probably equivalent to a 3rd in the 2015 NHL entry draft.

How many mid-round 3rd round picks from 2015 or 2016 would people take over Lazar? (Serious question, I haven't checked names)

Second Rounders

2013
Petan
Bowey (Maybe)

2014:
Dvorak
Montour
Demko (Maybe)

2015
Aho
Carlo
Greenway (Maybe)
Andersson /Kylington (Maybe but probably just homer bias)

2016
Too early to tell but Parsons, Debrincat, Dahlen, Raddysh, Kyrou have all had good draft + 1 seasons.

So at best there is probably a 10%-20% shot you would get a guy better than Lazar in the second round.

Third Rounders

2013
Pesce
Busnevich
Duclair (Maybe but similar struggles this year)
Bjorkstrand

2014:
Point
Tryamkin

Too early to tell for 3rd rounders in 2015 and 2016 IMO but...

2015
Cirelli (Maybe)

2016
Fox
Pu

Once again probably at best a 10-20% shot of a player better than Lazar.

The bigger thing for me is less who you could have drafted, but was that 2nd rounder better kept to have as currency at the draft when things open up a bit and draft picks start to get valued a little higher.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I still believe Baertschi was a good pick. The organization mishandled his development, and the Canucks are now benefiting from it.

I liked Baertschi too but I don't think the Flames mishandled him at all. Instead I don't think he fit with the new management's organizational culture.

Burke and BT have done a tremendous job of finding players that not only have the skillsets to match the team but the attitudes and goals of the team. As skilled a hockey player that he is, I didn't think he fit in. He felt more like a primadona from the interviews I saw and not taking critique well. He wasn't going to fit here because he didn't want to follow the development path the team thought he needed, thus he demanded a trade.

Good player, and I'm glad he is finding success, but he did not have the attitude to fit in with the team culture that Burke and BT have developed. That's on him, not on mishandling development.

[Bingo]

The Hockey News Winners and Losers
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...ers-and-losers

NO. 1 LOSER – OTTAWA SENATORS
Look, we like depth just as much as the next guy, but that’s all it is, depth. Adding Alex Burrows and Victor Stalberg to your lineup is not exactly tilting the balance of power in the Eastern Conference. The Senators gave up what could turn out to be an excellent long-term project in Jonathan Dahlen to get Burrows, then signed Burrows to a two-year contract extension. Head scratch. But the real error, in this writer’s opinion, was dealing Curtis Lazar, who will flourish in Calgary after being almost ruined by the Senators.

[CroFlames]

The way I look at it is that Lazar has played and will continue to play games in the NHL. That's worth a 2nd rounder.

Plus, he has a big upside. Sometimes different orgs handle development differently and different types of players respond differently.

[spuzzum]

I was on the fence about this trade but after reading a number of articles, comments from people, and the actual value of a 2nd rounder in the upcoming draft, it's a good gamble to take. The sheer fact that we have such a lack of right handed shot prospects on the wing , it's a good add.

I wonder how Baertschi would look playing on the right side with Johnny and Monahan. I think there would definitely would have been a place for him in our lineup.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Baertschi has 13 goals and 27 points. One more goal then Ferland and a couple more points then Versteeg. Maybe he would have a place in our line up but it would be as another interchangeable part. Happy he found a spot in Vancouver but not a player you pine for.

[sekimet]

It's not at all uncommon for people with monoucleosis to suffer severe fatigue for 6-8 months after diagnosis.(13 percent or something like that) For anyone who has had the mispleasure of suffering from it, the fact he has played high level hockey this year at all is pretty remarkable.

Just my input!

[CaptainCrunch]

If Lazar can use his size and speed to be an effective forechecker and be half decent without the puck then this is a win. They didn't trade for him with the idea that he had to step in and become a 20 goal scorer. They'll simplify his role and his game and maybe they'll get rewarded with some unexpected offense.

[smiggy77]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

God damnit, we could lose him for nothing?

Could we, yes. Will we, likely not.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Baertschi has 13 goals and 27 points. One more goal then Ferland and a couple more points then Versteeg. Maybe he would have a place in our line up but it would be as another interchangeable part. Happy he found a spot in Vancouver but not a player you pine for.

Not trying to stomp all over your post, but Baertschi has one more goal than Ferland in 10 less games and 4 more points than Versteeg in two less games.

I understand most Flames fans just want to write Sven off as a bust and pretend he couldn't even make our roster but its just not the case. He has been good for Vancouver, far from just a passenger.

It gives me hope that Curtis Lazar can be our Sven Baertschi here, many coincidences between them.

Both stapled to the fourth line, both felt they weren't getting enough ice time, both didn't have the confidence of their coaches, both young and showed their lack of maturity by asking for a trade, both had the team that drafted them decide that it was time to move on and a second round pick was sufficient.

If Curtis can find his game here, like Sven has in Vancouver, then this was a great move by Treliving.

[Erick Estrada]

Baertschi has been out for nearly a month with a concussion. This has to be his 3rd or 4th major concussion. Heck with the fact that he's a less than 0.5 ppg player, he's also injury prone and always one hit away from being out long term. I would do that trade again today without blinking knowing that it led to Rasmus Andersson.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Not trying to stomp all over your post, but Baertschi has one more goal than Ferland in 10 less games and 4 more points than Versteeg in two less games.

I understand most Flames fans just want to write Sven off as a bust and pretend he couldn't even make our roster but its just not the case. He has been good for Vancouver, far from just a passenger.

It gives me hope that Curtis Lazar can be our Sven Baertschi here, many coincidences between them.

Both stapled to the fourth line, both felt they weren't getting enough ice time, both didn't have the confidence of their coaches, both young and showed their lack of maturity by asking for a trade, both had the team that drafted them decide that it was time to move on and a second round pick was sufficient.

If Curtis can find his game here, like Sven has in Vancouver, then this was a great move by Treliving.

the Ferland comparison isn't going to hold for long if he stays on the top line... I like Versteeg, solid player... if that's Sven capacity in Vancouver then i am happy we made the trade that turned into Ramus...cause i'd trade Versteeg for a second rd pick every day of the week

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If Lazar can use his size and speed to be an effective forechecker and be half decent without the puck then this is a win. They didn't trade for him with the idea that he had to step in and become a 20 goal scorer. They'll simplify his role and his game and maybe they'll get rewarded with some unexpected offense.

I would think he has to come close to a 20 goal scorer for this to be a win down the road for Calgary.

You don't give up a second rounder for forechecking and decent without the puck. That's Lance Bouma.

Lazar will need to be an above average third liner for this to be a win IMO, because you can get an average third liner for free from free agency.

Can he be that player? Maybe.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Not trying to stomp all over your post, but Baertschi has one more goal than Ferland in 10 less games and 4 more points than Versteeg in two less games.

I understand most Flames fans just want to write Sven off as a bust and pretend he couldn't even make our roster but its just not the case. He has been good for Vancouver, far from just a passenger.

It gives me hope that Curtis Lazar can be our Sven Baertschi here, many coincidences between them.

Both stapled to the fourth line, both felt they weren't getting enough ice time, both didn't have the confidence of their coaches, both young and showed their lack of maturity by asking for a trade, both had the team that drafted them decide that it was time to move on and a second round pick was sufficient.

If Curtis can find his game here, like Sven has in Vancouver, then this was a great move by Treliving.

Baertschi had a junior season exponentially better than Lazar's (2ppg in D+1 vs 1.3 in D+1 season)
Baertschi was better in the AHL (though Lazar hasn't played there much)
Baertschi had much better numbers in the NHL as well.


There's nothing suggesting he could be our Baertschi (and I do not believe Baertschi would be ahead of Johnny or Tkachuk anyways). It's not impossible, but I'm seriously doubtful here

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I would think he has to come close to a 20 goal scorer for this to be a win down the road for Calgary.

You don't give up a second rounder for forechecking and decent without the puck. That's Lance Bouma.

Lazar will need to be an above average third liner for this to be a win IMO, because you can get an average third liner for free from free agency.

Can he be that player? Maybe.

I think that if he ends up being an average 3rd liner it is a win.
You can get an average third liner from free agency but you have to overpay dramatically to do that. You are better served to develop one internally.
Flawed logic.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I would think he has to come close to a 20 goal scorer for this to be a win down the road for Calgary.

You don't give up a second rounder for forechecking and decent without the puck. That's Lance Bouma.

Lazar will need to be an above average third liner for this to be a win IMO, because you can get an average third liner for free from free agency.

Can he be that player? Maybe.

Sure you can get an average 3rd liner if FA, but it will cost you. filling out your bottom 6 through FA is a horrible way to build a team. Bottom line is if you get a draft pick out side the first round to be a serviceable NHLer it is a win.

[Fire]

Lazar could play on any of the lines and not be a liability unlike Sven. Sven is more offensively talented , but I see Lazar as more of guy you win championships with.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The Hockey News Winners and Losers
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...ers-and-losers

You'd think that because of the Lazar trade making them #1 Losers on his list, that the Flames would be at least in his top 5 for Winners...

Definitely better than the Penguins and the Wild.

[The Professor]

So will he be around for practice today? Curious to see his in the Flames silks, where they play him etc. Is he expected to play on Friday?

Kostka to the A?