I would also argue that Bennett's offense mainly looks bad because this team (minus 3M) is incapable of generating offense at 5v5.
Gaudreau (an elite talent, proven top scorer in this league): 648 minutes TOI 18 points
Bennett ("struggling" 20 year old) 654 minutes TOI 16 points
Apart from 3M, GG's system does not work to generate offense at 5v5. I won't go and say it's a bad system, but it is not the right one for the elite so called skilled players on this team. Gaudreau is down over 0.5 points/60, and Monahan is down nearly 0.4. Giordano and Brodie are both down 0.8!
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GG talks like he's developed young players into good players before.
I fail to see many glowing examples.
"Spoiling the cucumber" is the main concern here. GG's insistence isn't helping the team win games. I'm sorry but if you want him to struggle at C until he's suddenly good at it, do it in the AHL where the consequences are minimal. Not up here. He hasn't been able to run with it and doesn't appear to be rounding any corner soon. Is there, perhaps, a certain point where it becomes a case of trying to fit the square peg into the circular hole? Bennett may say he has no preference but maybe, at the NHL level, he'd simply be more cut out to be a winger. And I honestly don't think moving him for a period of time will void him of his ability to play at C. Not if it helps to get his offensive game off the ground.
I feel like they're bashing their heads on a wall, and at no point has it yielded tangible results, for more than a period or the odd shift. It's time to stop and try something else. Very annoying to see that he/they won't.
I look at past guys who played Center here in Calgary who I am still very fond of such as Gilmour, Otto, Patterson , Neiwendyk, Yelle, and most didn't put up awesome numbers but we're respected league wide and we're always Selke considered.
Bennett will be there and I think his ascension has just begun....just want him to be steady in the future and be a playoff performer. I see that for him and just wish we had a better coach for him at this point .
Not names I brought up. Misterjoji mentioned those two amongst other great players.
From what I can see right now, he'll be a decent third liner. Which is not great but not garbage either.
Decent 3rd liner?!!?! C'mon!!
You're being intentionally brutal here...you're suggesting he's not likely to improve hardly at all??!
Even you must admit he projects to at least be a 2nd line player.
Good grief.
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... Eakins' claims Gagne's line played Kessel's line even...
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Yeah, Gagner's line was -4 and Kessel's was +4, so it all evened out.
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I would also argue that Bennett's offense mainly looks bad because this team (minus 3M) is incapable of generating offense at 5v5.
Gaudreau (an elite talent, proven top scorer in this league): 648 minutes TOI 18 points
Bennett ("struggling" 20 year old) 654 minutes TOI 16 points
Apart from 3M, GG's system does not work to generate offense at 5v5. I won't go and say it's a bad system, but it is not the right one for the elite so called skilled players on this team. Gaudreau is down over 0.5 points/60, and Monahan is down nearly 0.4. Giordano and Brodie are both down 0.8!
This is enlightening. And concerning, but not about Bennett.
GG talks like he's developed young players into good players before.
I fail to see many glowing examples.
"Spoiling the cucumber" is the main concern here. GG's insistence isn't helping the team win games. I'm sorry but if you want him to struggle at C until he's suddenly good at it, do it in the AHL where the consequences are minimal. Not up here. He hasn't been able to run with it and doesn't appear to be rounding any corner soon. Is there, perhaps, a certain point where it becomes a case of trying to fit the square peg into the circular hole? Bennett may say he has no preference but maybe, at the NHL level, he'd simply be more cut out to be a winger. And I honestly don't think moving him for a period of time will void him of his ability to play at C. Not if it helps to get his offensive game off the ground.
I feel like they're bashing their heads on a wall, and at no point has it yielded tangible results, for more than a period or the odd shift. It's time to stop and try something else. Very annoying to see that he/they won't.
Just my opinion.
I don't know if he was directly responsible for the development of Bo Horvat in Vancouver but GG is sort of taking the same approach with him. Horvat struggled through his first two seasons showing flashes but has really blossomed this year. I imagine GG is drawing from that.
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Calgary Flames, PLEASE GO TO THE NET! AND SHOOT THE PUCK! GENERATING OFFENSE IS NOT DIFFICULT! SKATE HARD, SHOOT HARD, CRASH THE NET HARD!
You're being intentionally brutal here...you're suggesting he's not likely to improve hardly at all??!
Even you must admit he projects to at least be a 2nd line player.
Good grief.
What has he done to show he'll be AT LEAST be a 2nd line player? Forget this draft status and watch him play. I've said it again and someone else it mentioned above as well, his hockey IQ is not very high.
I'm certainly willing to be patient because I see a lot there. It will come.
And I don't need everyone to agree with me, so call him a third liner if you want. But if I had one request, stop labelling anyone that disagrees with you as "fanboy", that's pretty weak positioning in an argument.
People can see upside in a player and not be discounted for being a fan.
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What has he done to show he'll be AT LEAST be a 2nd line player? Forget this draft status and watch him play. I've said it again and someone else it mentioned above as well, his hockey IQ is not very high.
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To be fair.. one game shouldn't be the main reason. Eric Nystrom scored 4 goals against the Flames too and he was always a 3rd/4th line player. (Also drafted in the top 10)
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I wonder if people would even bother to consider that:
- He never played PP1 unlike most young instant success stories going to thin rosters
- His #1/#2 even strength icetime linemates were not career established 3rd/4th liners Alex Chiasson and Troy Brouwer (this reeks of those Backlund/Bouma years. See what getting Backs away from Bouma did for the lone top six forward in that combo? Or what getting Kuznetsov away from Brouwer did? Or how much even Turris struggled eith Chiasson? )
- His #3 even strength ice time teammate was not career #6/#7 defenseman Deryk Engelland. When your D-man spends all his shifts defending as a career trend, you are likely to be spending all your shifts defending.
- He (or/and Tkachuk btw) were ever used in 4v4 or 3v3 situations instead of a certain career 3rd/4th liner who is simply awful in those situations.
If that is peoples' idea of a player being set up to succeed "because of 60% zone starts" I would point to Leon Draisaitl's zone starts as a rookie under Eakins. Zone starts are not highly correlated with individual success the way quality of teammate is. I am sure the Chiasson/Brouwer/Engelland(/Jokipakka) defense brigade will eyeroll at me for my dislike of players whose only role is to fulfil aesthetics but that same Draisaitl has played with Patrick Maroon, Connor McDavid, and Adam Larsson as his three 5v5 ice time linemate leaders, three excellent players instead lf three players who could get injured tomorrow and be replaced by someone off our struggling farm team without batting an eyelash. Last year, when he was 20, it was Hall, Purcell, and Sekera. Purcell's pretty soft, but Hall is a superstar and Sekera is a dependable and offensively capable #3.
The Flames can afford to protect Bennett from high quality of competition because Backlund, Stajan, and more recently, even Monahan have been pretty solid at center. But that does not excuse them setting Bennett up to fail nonetheless. Our right wing depth and (usual) 3rd defense pairing are by most modern measures atrocious. If Bennett had Hall and Sekera on the ice with him at all times I do not think he would be struggling this season. And while the Gaudreau experiment did not pay dividends, that was as much on the RW/D/Gaudreau himself playing unspectacularily as it was on on Bennett. Gaudreau hasn't exactly looked great at 5v5 with Monahan either.
I mean, the best persisting linemate Bennett has had this year is actually Kris Versteeg. A guy who, during training camp, was on a PTO.
I don't like these excuses.
1) Being on the #2PP unit means you're facing the #2 PK unit.
2) These lousy teammates that Bennett's been playing with have been more successful than Bennett. And which roster carries a load of elite talents in all top 9 spots? And which roster decides to put it's struggling young talents on its top lines?
What's would you do? Give Bennett the two best line mates and face them against other teams 4th lines, just to give Bennett better numbers? That would mean the Flames 4th line gets scored on when it faces the opponents good lines. The Flames are trying to compete, not inflate one player's numbers. If Bennett can't produce 5-on-5 against 3rd line competition, that's not a good sign.
3) There's worse 3rd pairings in the league than Engelland and Jokipakka. People can't at the same time suggest we resign Engelland and then suggest he's no good when it's convenient. No roster is going to have Norris candidates on its 3rd pair. Especially if a team drafted a 4th OA pick - chances are their roster sucks. But other 4th OA picks still manage to become star players
I know the Backlund line has been incredible. But I can't wait to see Tkachuk and Bennett together and rolling, whenever that happens and I'm sure it will. They will be a force!
To be fair.. one game shouldn't be the main reason. Eric Nystrom scored 4 goals against the Flames too and he was always a 3rd/4th line player. (Also drafted in the top 10)
Eric Nystrom never approached a 0.5 points/game pace; Bennett scored at that rate in his rookie season. There are plenty of reasons to think that he will still develop into a quality top-two centre.
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The biggest reason I see upside is the immaturity in his game; he can't help being 20. He forces it because he so badly wants to make things happen. Lately that is subsiding though and his cycle game with Versteeg is picking up.
I think Gulutzan is doing a very good job of slowly altering both Monahan and Bennett's game into NHL 200 foot center styles and that takes time.
With Bennett playing a little smarter now he's due to have a big game, and when that happens I'll be really curious to see what it does for his confidence.
But forcing it, taking dumb penalties, some of the turnovers all speak to a young guy wanting something so badly that he gets in his own way in my mind.
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What makes you question his hockey IQ? The offensive zone penalties?
Offensive Zone Penalties, Doesn't use linemates well, forces a lot of plays, consistently trys low percentage moves, looks like a train wreck in the d zone at times (improving).
I understand he's young. The problem for me is he consistently does the same things over and over. He fails the eye test on IQ for me at this point. It could definitely change, but guys with high hockey IQ usually display it even at that young age.
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To be fair, not every player progresses. Some players progress, some regress, and some plateau.
Of course, but elite players typically demonstrate their potential this many games into their career.
That's fine though. Bennett was never talked about being a huge scorer in this league. Everyone was saying Doug Gilmore, and if we get a more pugnacious faster and engaged Backlund type player out of Bennett you have to be happy with that.
