2016/2017 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Am I in crazy land? IgiTang is the one always making the huge homer trade proposals in favor of the Flames, that other teams would never do. Now I open up the trade thread and he's in an argument with everyone saying "don't worry I'm not calling you guys homers but you need to be more realistic".

Am I thinking of a different poster, can someone help me remember? I'm like 99% sure that was Igitang, he was the resident Flames friendly trade guy, no?

Yeah, I have a tendency to favor the flames in trades. You can call me a homer, sure..

A broken clock is right twice a day, remember.

[mdubz]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Yeah, I have a tendency to favor the flames in trades. You can call me a homer, sure..

A broken clock is right twice a day, remember.

Aren't you on military time?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I agree with much of what you are saying, the only issue is, who LV would take is not what we are talking about.

The debate is whether Brodie will always be miles ahead of Larsson and that a Landeskog doesnt get you TJ Brodie and that the Avs would have to add.

Why? because according to some, Larsson is no where near as valuable as Brodie and the fact that he got Hall, makes Hall much less valuable than Landeskog..

Bottom line is, Brodie is not getting you Landeskog and no, the Avs are not adding.. That was the original comment I was replying to.

Just because you make it your bottom line, doesn't mean it's correct.

Brodie > Larsson. Hall > Landeskog

You're either overrating Landeskog who looks like no more than a great top six guy (but certainly not a bonafide first liner) or underrating Brodie who looks like a great top 3 guy (but certainly not a bonafide first pairing). These things have very comparable value.

Look at +/- all you want, but don't forget the fact that Brodie has double the points of Larsson (160 to 80) with only 60 more games played (380 to 320). They play different games, and if your best argument is that Larsson during an up year with top pairing minutes is just as good as Brodie during a down year playing 2nd pairing minutes, then I think you're accidentally making the wrong argument.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

And I do think Larsson does not get enough credit around here. He plays a different less flashy role but he's a solid #3 Dman right now at 24. In a couple years he should be a legit top pairing D and brings an element to the game that can't be captured on the scoresheet.

Solid defensive/possession d-man are always underrated in trade discussions. Every team that wants to go deep in the playoffs needs a Vlasic, Hjalmarsson, Muzzin, or Stralman.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by mdubz

Aren't you on military time?

I actually lol'd. Nice one.


But as "back handed" as Jayswin's comment was, it is another post that doesnt add anything to the conversation, its just another comment about another poster.. which is typically his style..

But the point still remains, TJ Brodie does not get you a Landeskog straight up, let alone the Avs adding to Landy.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Brodie's play has been so bad that it's hard not to wonder if he has been overrated by our fan base. Suffice to say that if he can't be better than this, the team is in trouble.

You could say that about a lot of young players on the team this season.

I'd take the sample size over the last few years with these young guys (especially Brodie under his circumstances)....

but then again I'm not just looking to be needlessly argumentative and negative.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I actually lol'd. Nice one.


But as "back handed" as Jayswin's comment was, it is another post that doesnt add anything to the conversation, its just another comment about another poster.. which is typically his style..

But the point still remains, TJ Brodie does not get you a Landeskog straight up, let alone the Avs adding to Landy.

I'm sorry but you've shown over and over in this thread and it's previous incarnations that you have the most skewed sense of what players are worth of just about anyone on this site.

If you start throwing out "bottom line" and "point remains" underlining your skewed takes as factual, you can expect the responses you're getting here.

[Weitz]

I think Brodie's trade value to a team would be how they see him fitting in with their team.

If you want him to play a defensively sound game on the left side you might not be willing to pay as much as if you wanted him to play on the right side in a run n gun type game.

[Poe969]

I kind of agree with IggiTang but at the same time I don't. Who really knows what Sakic or Treliving are thinking? Maybe Treliving calls about Landeskog and gets the conversation going and the Avs really covet Brodie but Treliving says that the Avs would have to add because he doesn't want to trade him. In that situation, the Avs who really covet Brodie would be willing to add to the deal. Maybe Treliving offers Brodie straight up and Sakic takes it. Maybe Treliving covets Landeskog more than Sakic does Brodie and it becomes Brodie + for Landeskog.

Who the hell knows. There are very few deals that actually come to fruition that fans "guess" right. We don't know what these GMs are thinking and usually most of us are way off one way or another when it comes to what the deal actually pans out to be.

Odds are Landeskog doesn't get dealt to the Flames and we never really know who was right. Either way, we're just giving our opinions so if it makes you feel better...you're all wrong!

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Just because you make it your bottom line, doesn't mean it's correct.

Brodie > Larsson. Hall > Landeskog

You're either overrating Landeskog who looks like no more than a great top six guy (but certainly not a bonafide first liner) or underrating Brodie who looks like a great top 3 guy (but certainly not a bonafide first pairing). These things have very comparable value.

Look at +/- all you want, but don't forget the fact that Brodie has double the points of Larsson (160 to 80) with only 60 more games played (380 to 320). They play different games, and if your best argument is that Larsson during an up year with top pairing minutes is just as good as Brodie during a down year playing 2nd pairing minutes, then I think you're accidentally making the wrong argument.

Now youre just taking pieces of other peoples posts to make them your own..

Is Sakic > Chiarelli as a GM? Comparing the Hall situation and comparing the Landeskog situation are two very different scenarios.

Its not as simple as hopw some of you are trying to make it. Hall fell out of favor. Landeskog is an assett that would kick start a Avs rebuild.

Sakic would not take Brodie for Landeskog and then add to that.. that is what was said pages ago and what I originally replied to.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Now youre just taking pieces of other peoples posts to make them your own..

Is Sakic > Chiarelli as a GM? Comparing the Hall situation and comparing the Landeskog situation are two very different scenarios.

Its not as simple as hopw some of you are trying to make it. Hall fell out of favor. Landeskog is an assett that would kick start a Avs rebuild.

Sakic would not take Brodie for Landeskog and then add to that.. that is what was said pages ago and what I originally replied to.

What allows you to speak for Sakic?

Brodie is a better Dman than Larson pretty easy to see that when you look at their careers.

Donthe Avs want to tear it down completely? I don't believe that has been stated anywhere. They are in a similar spot as the Oilers as they are in desperate need for a Dman but in their case they need a LHD since they have Barrie and Johnson.

The question you should have been asking instead of trying to prove Larsson is better than Brodie is disputing the price of a top Dman. Chia got screwed on the Hall trade but rewind 1 year Treliving scored Hamilton for a fraction of the cost the Oil paid for Larsson.

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Hes also got 3 years more in the league. Lets revisit points at 26 years old when Larsson gets there.

TJ Brodie's first year in the NHL he played 3 games (2010-2011 season)

the next year (2011-2012) Brodie played 54 games while Larsson played 65 games.

so Brodie got a cup of coffee one year before Larsson broke into the league.

Math is not hard, but apparently for some it is...

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Now youre just taking pieces of other peoples posts to make them your own..

Is Sakic > Chiarelli as a GM? Comparing the Hall situation and comparing the Landeskog situation are two very different scenarios.

Its not as simple as hopw some of you are trying to make it. Hall fell out of favor. Landeskog is an assett that would kick start a Avs rebuild.

Sakic would not take Brodie for Landeskog and then add to that.. that is what was said pages ago and what I originally replied to.

I didn't read all the posts arguing with you, but obviously if mine echoes them I agree with them. Who cares if mine is similar?

You can't say with any certainty what you're saying is true. You're making bold assumptions that are no better than those who think Sakic would have to add.

Personally, I think Brodie gets you Landeskog. I've seeing nothing compelling to suggest that isn't true, including your misrepresentation of value concerning every player being discussed (Hall, Larsson, Brodie, Landeskog).

Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it gets you more than Landeskog. Maybe it's the start and it's a four player deal. Regardless, the value is comparable, and definitely not worthy of soapboxing about homers.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What allows you to speak for Sakic?

Brodie is a better Dman than Larson pretty easy to see that when you look at their careers.

Donthe Avs want to tear it down completely? I don't believe that has been stated anywhere. They are in a similar spot as the Oilers as they are in desperate need for a Dman but in their case they need a LHD since they have Barrie and Johnson.

The question you should have been asking instead of trying to prove Larsson is better than Brodie is disputing the price of a top Dman. Chia got screwed on the Hall trade but rewind 1 year Treliving scored Hamilton for a fraction of the cost the Oil paid for Larsson.

I dont know how many ways or how many times I can say it before you will stop trying to argue something that isnt there...

Im not saying Larsson is better than Brodie. Not once.

Is Brodie more offensively gifted than Larsson? Absolutely.

Is Larsson more defensively gifted than Brodie? Absolutely.

Lets leave it at that.

The cost that was to acquire Hamilton who wanted out of Boston and the cost for NJ to acquire Hall who fell out of favor in Edm cant really be compared can they? Two completely different situations.

In saying that, the only constant is Chia..

So when saying that Hall/Larsson are comparable to what Sakic would get for Landeskog is completely ludicrous.

So lets say Landeskog>Hall and Brodie >Larsson... so that means Brodie should get you Landeskog? No..

Again, I have been saying it since the very start... these situations have nothing to do with each other and the Hall trade is certainly not the precedent.

So for someone to surmise that Brodie gets you Landeskog its such a complete fallacy.

And this is what you have been doing.

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I dont know how many ways or how many times I can say it before you will stop trying to argue something that isnt there...

Im not saying Larsson is better than Brodie. Not once.

Is Brodie more offensively gifted than Larsson? Absolutely.

Is Larsson more defensively gifted than Brodie? Debatable, at best.

Lets leave it at that.

ftfy

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

I dont know how many ways or how many times I can say it before you will stop trying to argue something that isnt there...

Im not saying Larsson is better than Brodie. Not once.

Is Brodie more offensively gifted than Larsson? Absolutely.

Is Larsson more defensively gifted than Brodie? Absolutely.

Lets leave it at that.

The cost that was to acquire Hamilton who wanted out of Boston and the cost for NJ to acquire Hall who fell out of favor in Edm cant really be compared can they? Two completely different situations.

In saying that, the only constant is Chia..

So when saying that Hall/Larsson are comparable to what Sakic would get for Landeskog is completely ludicrous.

So lets say Landeskog>Hall and Brodie >Larsson... so that means Brodie should get you Landeskog? No..

Again, I have been saying it since the very start... these situations have nothing to do with each other and the Hall trade is certainly not the precedent.

So for someone to surmise that Brodie gets you Landeskog its such a complete fallacy.

And this is what you have been doing.

Geez man you are just off

Why doesn't a Dman like Brodie (signed to an amazing contract, scored 40+pts, played against top matchups) not get you Landeskog (signed to a reasonable deal, injury history, ~50pts). I think the mistake I have made arguing with you was not you under-rating Brodie but you over-rating Landeskog. Again laughable that you absolutely say Larson is better defensively than Brodie. Do you forget that Gio-Brodie were an amazing defensive pairing the past 2 years.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Geez man you are just off

Why doesn't a Dman like Brodie (signed to an amazing contract, scored 40+pts, played against top matchups) not get you Landeskog (signed to a reasonable deal, injury history, ~50pts). I think the mistake I have made arguing with you was not you under-rating Brodie but you over-rating Landeskog. Again laughable that you absolutely say Larson is better defensively than Brodie. Do you forget that Gio-Brodie were an amazing defensive pairing the past 2 years.

Im far off? Brodie isnt even a perennial (constant) 10G 30A guy, and has broken 40 pts twice.

Youre acting like hes a #1 or top pairing 50+pt Dman. And then you bring up the fact hes played with a Norris calibre D partner the 2 years he did break 40 pts..?

He's not even top 2 on his own team and now separated from Gio, hes having the worst season in his career?

But im way off? What does that say about you buds?

Im done.. now I know youre just trying to argue to save face.

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Im far off? Brodie isnt even a perennial (constant) 10G 30A guy, and has broken 40 pts twice.

Youre acting like hes a #1 or top pairing 50+pt Dman. And then you bring up the fact hes played with a Norris calibre D partner the 2 years he did break 40 pts..?

He's not even top 2 on his own team and now separated from Gio, hes having the worst season in his career?

But im way off? What does that say about you buds?

Im done.. now I know youre just trying to argue to save face.

Good, you keep repeating the same thing and throw out a lot of alternative facts like: Brodie has played 3 more seasons in the NHL than Larsson, Larsson is "absolutely" better defensively than Brodie etc...

and I firmly believe that Brodie made Gio better more than vice versa - but unlike you I don't proclaim things to be facts that are impossible to prove - that's an opinion, not a fact.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Im far off? Brodie isnt even a perennial (constant) 10G 30A guy, and has broken 40 pts twice.

Youre acting like hes a #1 or top pairing 50+pt Dman. And then you bring up the fact hes played with a Norris calibre D partner the 2 years he did break 40 pts..?

He's not even top 2 on his own team and now separated from Gio, hes having the worst season in his career?

But im way off? What does that say about you buds?

Im done.. now I know youre just trying to argue to save face.

Okay I get it you are a "what have you done for me lately" kind of guy. Brodie is having a bad year but guess what pal so is Landeskog.

Let's take into account more than this season. Brodie was easily considered the Flames top Dman this past summer. He is having a poor year adjusting to the left side and being paired with Wideman who is awful. Let Brodie play with Gio or Dougie and maybe he is considered number 1 or 2 on the team.

Is Gio a Norris caliber Dman today? Not even close so maybe that has to do with the fact he is no longer paired with Brodie? Pretty easy to flip your argument right back at you.


Brodie has proven for several years that he is a top pairing Dman who is 26 and signed to a deal that pays him less than $5M per. He can play PP and PK he is the zaxt type of Dman every team covers. Sorry bud he has more value than a LW that gets paid $5.75M and gets you around 55pts a year

[getoverit]

OMG get a room already! lol