CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ken0042

That is my single biggest issue with CalgaryNext. The Flames are willing to give up 60% of the available parking just so they can cash in on the remaining 40%. And as anybody who currently parks on the grounds knows- it isn't like there is a huge surplus right now.

So basically they are asking for my taxes to go up, price for tickets to go up significantly, and take away the ability for me to park at the game. All so the owners can make more money on premium seats.

Without commenting on anything else you said, I doubt there will be any increase in parking if Plan B is near the current location.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's actually mentioned in the Herald too....in an article about hosting the Olympics is the only way to fast track LRT to the airport...

During a breakfast address hosted by the Calgary Chamber, Nenshi said a train extension to the airport, labelled a medium-term priority in the city’s 30-year transit strategic plan, could be fast-tracked if Calgary secures the Winter Games.

Nenshi told the crowd a link to the airport is low on the priority list, behind the Green Line LRT project, an extended northeast line and an expanded Bus Rapid Transit system across the city.

“And then, the airport transit will connect to the Green Line and the Blue Line across the north end of the city down Airport Trail. But, that’s not going to happen anytime soon — unless, of course, we get the Olympics,” he told the crowd.

Later in the day, Nenshi told reporters that expediting the transit priorities detailed in the RouteAhead strategic plan approved by council in 2013, including the $175-million train extension to the airport, “would be a great thing.”

“The airport transit connection is quite low on the list. But, that said, if we were to get a whole bunch of federal funding for something like the Olympics, that would actually allow us to accelerate the whole list,” he said.

Coun. Jim Stevenson, whose ward includes the airport, said the $295-million airport tunnel was designed to accommodate an eventual LRT expansion, though passenger demand for a link doesn’t currently exist.

“The possibility of the Winter Olympics is 10 years away. I’ve always said the demand would likely by there within 10 years, so maybe we can tie it all together. You never know,” he said.

While a city report pegged the cost of the CalgaryNEXT project at $1.8 billion — more than double the $890 million price tag initially put forward in 2015 — the ownership group has disputed the city’s estimate and said including remediation of the creosote-contaminated West Village, the price tag is $1.3 billion before financing.

“Both of those numbers are unattainable in this economy, so unless that project changes very significantly, I cannot see the public supporting that level of public money into that level of private investment,” Nenshi said Tuesday.

The mayor reiterated that discussions about a second plan “that requires much less public money and has much more public benefit” continue to take place.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...t-transit-link

[Bingo]

I don't see this as any thing new at all ... just more posturing.

If he's hell bent on the olympics he'll need new facilities and I don't think just a new hockey rink will do it.

Bottom line I'll be sad if something isn't worked out in the West Village, I like the idea of developing that mess into something cool and modern .

Before I get jumped on, I'm not saying the city should take the deal as it stands, but the blight of the west of downtown would be a nice thing to fix.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

?

I have no idea how you went from my post to your thinking i am attacking you and your suggestion.

You quoted me.

Maybe re-read my posts?

Sorry, mixing up conversations. Apologies.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Bingo

the blight of the west of downtown would be a nice thing to fix.

A little dramatic, no?

I would say the East Village was the closest thing we had to a blight, and if we dilute development in the core, that project won't ever be completed and will turn into a nice chunk of urban prairie.

To realize the infrastructure investments that were made in the East Village in the form of tax dollars, it's not time to go throwing up condos and entertainment districts somewhere else in the city.

If a car dealership and some contamination that you wouldn't know was there unless someone told you is "blight" then we need to bulldoze a good chunk of our city and pray for more condos no one wants to buy.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Without commenting on anything else you said, I doubt there will be any increase in parking if Plan B is near the current location.

What I was getting at is that with CalgaryNext, we go from about 6000 parking stalls to 2500. At least with something on Stampede grounds we still keep those 6000 stalls. So I'm not looking for more parking, I'm looking to not lose any existing parking.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

A little dramatic, no?

I would say the East Village was the closest thing we had to a blight, and if we dilute development in the core, that project won't ever be completed and will turn into a nice chunk of urban prairie.

To realize the infrastructure investments that were made in the East Village in the form of tax dollars, it's not time to go throwing up condos and entertainment districts somewhere else in the city.

If a car dealership and some contamination that you wouldn't know was there unless someone told you is "blight" then we need to bulldoze a good chunk of our city and pray for more condos no one wants to buy.

Yup short-sighted for the financial goodwill of the city, to accommodate the aesthetic desires of a few.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Yup short-sighted for the financial goodwill of the city, to accommodate the aesthetic desires of a few.

Way to boil it down, thanks.

I guess I like pretty things and have no substance.

Just kills me how people just don't like differing opinions these days. The other side of the coin exists, you may just need to deal with that.

I'm certainly understanding of the argument against the subject and don't feel the need to hammer any one that disagree with me.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Muta

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Transferring would be slightly more inconvenienced at the west location, but not by much. The four-car train is there, as is a comprehensive busing system to stations downtown (as proposed by the Flames).

Four-car train is two cars smaller than the full trains that already go South from the Saddledome now. This isn't small inconvenience, it is the busiest line that needs to transfer. And if the Flames aren't paying for the comprehensive bus system then it isn't there, and won't be. Right now the traffic is at least spread by an awful lot of people going South. Vic Park means you split up trains going all directions, and can relieve it even more when the Green Line comes in.

Crowchild Trail / Bow Trail / 14th Street / 5th Avenue / 9th Avenue and the less amount of lights (now and in the future) easily beats the current MacLeod Trail configuration by the Saddledome. Road traffic, which is still a significant component of transportation, is significantly better in the West Village.

14th Street isn't really useful for people leaving or going to the WV location, and 5th Ave isn't useful for people leaving it. It has Crowchild and Bow Trail sure, but Bow Trail and 9th Ave's capacitys and flow will likely be affected by needing the space to put this white elephant in.

The roads aren't as good as you think they are. 11th and 12th Ave, Access to 9th Ave, and McLeod Trail are less of a step back from Crowchild Bow than the LRT setback is in switching locations.

Walking distance to downtown is exactly the same.

Distance might be the same, quality is definitely not. (and if the plan is to just funnel people over to the pathways, you're adding distance and killing any benefit you'd get from foot traffic to and from games). There's nothing accessible in that journey across the 14th St clusterfu*k from the west side of downtown. Vic Park has better access from downtown, and from the Beltline, where more development is planned for the 'Victoria Crossing' areas or whatever they're calling it these days.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Just kills me how people just don't like differing opinions these days. The other side of the coin exists, you may just need to deal with that.

Some people think the rink should go out to Balzac.

Not all opinions are equal and formed on the same depth of consideration.

The pros paid to evaluate the feasibility of this thing are starting to chime in and agree.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

I think you guys are giving Ken and the gang a little too much credit to think that this was the plan all along....

I'm still waiting on the other shoe to drop from the Phaneuf trade!

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Way to boil it down, thanks.

I guess I like pretty things and have no substance.

Just kills me how people just don't like differing opinions these days. The other side of the coin exists, you may just need to deal with that.

I'm certainly understanding of the argument against the subject and don't feel the need to hammer any one that disagree with me.

It is a highly polarizing debate, and people are passionate about it. The type of debate in this thread isn't new for a subject like this.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Bumface's point was that in no way is the West Village a blight on the city. It's nothing interesting to look at but you don't gag as you drive by like the salvage yard west of Deerfoot.

The first time anyone hears about contamination west of downtown their reaction almost always is "What, where??". It's there but it not noticeable and don't know about it unless told.

[Fuzz]

I find it a little amusing that they think the Olympics is like winning some sort of lottery and free money will fall from the sky. Funding for arenas! Funding for LRT's! Funding for stadiums! Funding for field houses!

Get real. It's still our(taxpayer's) money.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I find it a little amusing that they think the Olympics is like winning some sort of lottery and free money will fall from the sky. Funding for arenas! Funding for LRT's! Funding for stadiums! Funding for field houses!

Get real. It's still our(taxpayer's) money.

It IS free money though.

It's a massive government handout for a 2 week party that most of the city can't really get involved in.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

And the area being used for a hockey rink would be a travesty.

As opposed to what? Another trendy Ct Pa condo neighborhood by the river?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by RM14

As opposed to what? Another trendy Ct Pa condo neighborhood by the river?

Dowisetrepla, now featuring level floors and almost no smell.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by RM14

As opposed to what? Another trendy Ct Pa condo neighborhood by the river?

At least that would provide a live/work/play area that actually pays taxes and demonstrates value beyond the few lucky enough to buy tickets to a hockey game...

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Bumface's point was that in no way is the West Village a blight on the city. It's nothing interesting to look at but you don't gag as you drive by like the salvage yard west of Deerfoot.

The first time anyone hears about contamination west of downtown their reaction almost always is "What, where??". It's there but it not noticeable and don't know about it unless told.

I think land bought that can't be used is a hit on the tax payer. When you hear about chemicals in people's basements after the floods it's an issue. And real estate within walking distance of a major city's downtown core shouldn't be an odd old bus station, some car lots, and an empty field.

It just doesn't say modern city to me.

The East Village was embarrassing now it's becoming very cool. I'm not saying the city should take the deal as it stands, but I hope something happens in the West with or without an arena project to do the same.

I think Calgary deserves it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Bumface's point was that in no way is the West Village a blight on the city. It's nothing interesting to look at but you don't gag as you drive by like the salvage yard west of Deerfoot.

The first time anyone hears about contamination west of downtown their reaction almost always is "What, where??". It's there but it not noticeable and don't know about it unless told.

It may not be as bad as the auto salvage but it looks as bad as the EV did. The EV had some parking lots and cheap buildings. The WV area has car dealerships and storage lots that are a mess, the planetarium is abandoned (or looks that way), and the bus depot is a big old block of bricks. Mewata and the millenium park are interesting, I guess. And the contamination makes any development a non-starter unless a government agency steps in.

I get the "no tax dollars" argument, but I also get the development counterargument.