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Old 11-28-2016, 03:28 PM   #2981
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Woah there gramps, try and limit the pop culture references to things that originally aired in color.
You nicklebound nitwit!
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:28 PM   #2982
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An interesting article on fake news and how some of it happens.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/bu...ebook.com&_r=0

This is more of misinformation event than a disinformation event, but it still contributes to the chaos. This is one of the reasons I hate citizen journalism. Most people are too damned lazy to chase down the details of something. If you don't have the time to do so, don't create the story.
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:31 PM   #2983
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Yeah, I caught that. Look, I'm just really sick of being told that I'm secretly a supporter of things simply because I don't immediately accept every criticism of them at face value.

You're the king of "we agree, but I disagree in the way that you present your agreement."

Excuse everyone for thinking that you might just disagree. It's very exhausting to navigate all the time.
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Old 11-28-2016, 03:32 PM   #2984
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Yeah, introspective reflection and self-examination can really take the life out of you.

EDIT: Though apparently based on the above story, Eric Tucker could have used some.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:12 PM   #2985
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Searching CP for user ACGOLD and the keyword DEGREE found your claim to have a geoscience degree on the 8th hit. Maybe you should have gotten a degree in The Google, searching on someone's dubious claims isn't creepy, it's routine.

I suppose it's possible you have two different degrees in utterly unrelated fields. Is it likely - well, I don't see any evidence you understand psychology at all. Psychology teaches that all communication is manipulation, so it can't invalidate certain words due to those words being overly manipulative, that's like a chemist arguing the sea can't be salty because there's too much salt in it. Which would make him a pretty dubious chemist.

Lastly, the meaning of words and how we arrive at understanding are semantics and epistemology, respectively - not psychology. Which you would think someone of your claimed erudition would know.
If I post evidence of my credentials as well as documented dissertations proving how correct I am how much will you pay me? Let's start taking wagers here, put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise you're all just a waste of time. I'll put up $1000. You guys want to attack me with your group tactics well I'm willing to put money on the line and we'll see who is right and who is wrong. Try to turn the tide with your rhetoric groupthink, well, let's see how that stands up to the test.

$1000 that I have multiple degrees and that buzzwords were developed scientifically by thinktanks. Any takers or you all talk?

And if you're wrong, completely wrong, what does that make you? What will that say about CP? Anyone willing to wager can message me.

Last edited by AcGold; 11-28-2016 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:15 PM   #2986
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Number two, as far as this issue on climate change -- the only thing he was saying after being asked a few questions about it is, look, he'll have an open mind about it but he has his default position, which most of it is a bunch of bunk, but he'll have an open mind and listen to people. I think that’s what he’s saying.

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/20...m-ryan-on-why/
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:25 PM   #2987
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I'm out for good.

Tease.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:25 PM   #2988
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Surprise surprise I didn't appreciate being dragged through the mud with 100% false accusations and group tactics. The gall to want to defend myself against BS in the face of completely blind ignorance. Offer stands, $1000 to anyone willing to wager on it. Easiest money I'll ever make.

Last edited by AcGold; 11-28-2016 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:33 PM   #2989
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If I post evidence of my credentials as well as documented dissertations proving how correct I am how much will you pay me? Let's start taking wagers here, put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise you're all just a waste of time. I'll put up $1000. You guys want to attack me with your group tactics well I'm willing to put money on the line and we'll see who is right and who is wrong. Try to turn the tide with your rhetoric groupthink, well, let's see how that stands up to the test.

$1000 that I have multiple degrees and that buzzwords were developed scientifically by thinktanks. Any takers or you all talk?

And if you're wrong, completely wrong, what does that make you? What will that say about CP? Anyone willing to wager can message me.
I'm interested.

Define buzzword, scientifically, and think tanks. And the standard of proof required for each element.

My main caveat would be if buzzwords were previously defined or studied without being called buzzwords prior to a think tank popularizing them you would lose the wager.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:37 PM   #2990
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Originally Posted by AcGold View Post
Surprise surprise I didn't appreciate being dragged through the mud with 100% false accusations and group tactics.

Nobody even knows who you actually are. If you abandoned your account for good, any "dragging through the mud" would cease to be relevant to you at all.

I'm also curious about your bet. I think you need to very carefully make your claims clear first.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:41 PM   #2991
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Some people just flock to drama.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:42 PM   #2992
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Paul Horner is one of the guys who says he gets rich from writing fake news.

I believe he's the one who likes to claim he put Trump in the White House.
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Last edited by missdpuck; 11-28-2016 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:47 PM   #2993
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Originally Posted by AcGold View Post
If I post evidence of my credentials as well as documented dissertations proving how correct I am how much will you pay me? Let's start taking wagers here, put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise you're all just a waste of time. I'll put up $1000. You guys want to attack me with your group tactics well I'm willing to put money on the line and we'll see who is right and who is wrong. Try to turn the tide with your rhetoric groupthink, well, let's see how that stands up to the test.

$1000 that I have multiple degrees and that buzzwords were developed scientifically by thinktanks. Any takers or you all talk?

And if you're wrong, completely wrong, what does that make you? What will that say about CP? Anyone willing to wager can message me.
Well I'm not a gambling man and I certainly don't have multiple degrees in a variety of disparate fields, (though I am a waste of time), but I gotta ask, without putting any money on the line, what think tank cooked up the word "synergy" and turned that into a buzzword?

If a word is just a word before it becomes a buzzword, who is behind that? Because synergy was just a word with a definition before it became a meaningless buzzword. Who invented it to become a buzzword, and to what end?
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:07 PM   #2994
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Two things:

1) fake news is fake news. It's made up news. This isn't MSM vs other media. It's fake news. It's infowars and Breitbart and others. It's made up news. It's fictional news. You can't legitimize it by saying it's just not MSM

2) The reason for it's rise isn't MSM's fault. If there's one irritating thing out of all of this is the concerted effort from conspiracy theorists to lump hundreds of thousands of journalists as a single GROUP. People click on interesting stories. Real life grey complex stories aren't as attention grabbing as the Clinton's had people killed. You cannot compete with that. It's made up, but far more interesting. The rise of fake news is on the people. You cannot give idiocy of the general populace a pass all the time and scream "IF ONLY THE MSM COVETED THE CLINTON'S MURDERS AS WELL AS INFOWARS!" because that's the opposite of what they should be doing. The reason we don't have Walter Cronkite in 2016 is because people don't want that. End of story
We do have the Intercept though, which has really put out some high quality, well researched content.

I think you kind of made my point with #2.

The mainstream media has gone from innocent bystander to active participant in this - when you sink down to that level, you are going to lose credibility. These organizations had the high ground, but have seen that eroded in recent years.

I made a comment about the Pizzagate article earlier in this thread from the NYT. When you publish items under the title of "FACT CHECK", discuss very few facts and basically present a one sided fluff piece, you lose credibility in my eyes. Brietbart continues to churn out articles with about as much research that the NYT article had presenting the other side of Pizzagate. (And please, do not accuse me of supporting this conspiracy, just take a look at the article and read it critically for what it is. Does it present both sides of an issue? Does it use facts to back up claims? Does it use research to prove claims they are presenting as true and does it disprove claims that are false?)

The problem is writing stuff like that article are extremely easy to do because they are mostly opinion pieces. And Cheap to make. That drives revenue which keeps the business model afloat.

I realize the business model that they have is dying, but when there is roughly as much fact in some WaPo or NYT articles that there is in a Brietbart article, then you've got problems.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:08 PM   #2995
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Originally Posted by GGG View Post
I'm interested.

Define buzzword, scientifically, and think tanks. And the standard of proof required for each element.

My main caveat would be if buzzwords were previously defined or studied without being called buzzwords prior to a think tank popularizing them you would lose the wager.
Well that the moved the goalposts quite a bit.

From the dictionary

"an important-sounding usually technical word or phrase often of little meaning used chiefly to impress laymen"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/buzzword



First official use, 1946, Harvard. It's history an amalgamation of many efforts involving worker efficiency and marketing. Developed incrementally from the 20's to the 60's. The effectiveness of small phrases on workers and consumers was analyzed and used as office speak in the workplace and buzzwords in commercialization and media.


This an excerpt form an article on the history of officespeak and the involvement of think tanks;


"In 1911, Frederick Winslow Taylor published The Principles of Scientific Management, a book with one goal: destroy worker inefficiency. His theory, often called “Taylorism,” was all about maximizing every action on an assembly line. “There was a shift to the logic of science and efficiency,” Rakesh Khurana, a professor at Harvard Business School and soon-to-be-dean of Harvard College, told me. “Divide work into its smallest component parts, figure out the timing, remove any unnecessary efficiencies. That was the way work was organized, and that had a huge impact on the way corporate culture was organized.” The words used to talk about workers in books and boardrooms were accordingly mechanistic, emphasizing accuracy, precision, incentives, and maximized production.
This idea started to shift in the late 1920s and ’30s. In 1924, the Australian sociologist George Elton Mayo started running a series of experiments at Hawthorne Works, a large factory of the Western Electric Company in the suburbs of Chicago. He set out with a simple task: figure out how the brightness of the lights in the factory affected worker productivity. But his team got some surprising results: Whenever the lights changed—no matter whether they got dimmer or brighter—workers got better at their jobs. They concluded that the workers’ physical environment wasn’t what made them better—it was that they thought their bosses were paying attention to them.

Mayo and his team quickly changed their focus: Instead of thinking of workers as cogs in a vast machine, they began thinking of them as living units of a large, complex social organism.

"In the 1930s, you begin getting this human relations perspective, in many ways in opposition to the scientific imagery,” Khurana said. “This is really about this notion that managers don’t understand the psychology of workers. By treating them as machines, they not only deny their humanity; it actually results in ineffective management, social disorganization, lack of cooperation, and an increase in tensions between labor and management.” Although the methodology of the Hawthorne experiment has since been criticized, the results triggered a shift in how researchers thought about workers.

This seemed to come at just the right time: The Great Depression had set in, and industries were in an existential crisis. “Alienation, abseentism, labor turn-over, wild-cat strikes—these came to be associated not with meeting the workers’ economic needs, but their psychological and social needs,” Khurana said.

World War II liberated these theories from the halls of academia. Suddenly, organizational science was seen as a possible tool for understanding what had happened to nations like Germany and Japan. “What was it about the culture of those societies that led them to suddenly shift from what was seen as quite enlightened and advanced to suddenly becoming very authoritarian? The government became interested in this, and they started funding all sorts of studies.”

At the same time, American companies were changing. “Most of the large organizations that were emerging at this time were not in any single business,” Khurana said. “They were large, diversified conglomerates that had been created as a consequence of World War II and of the huge mergers and acquisitions activity that took place in the 1950s and ’60s. Firms like Pepsico owned trucking companies, even though they were in the food business.”

This made it more difficult for workers to feel a connection to their companies, Khurana said. “What people were very much focused on was: How can we get workers to feel differently about their jobs?”

For academics, this was as much a question of sociology as efficiency. It soon became a question of money, too: “As a manager, how can I maximize profits by creating a certain emotional atmosphere at my company?”

In trying to answer this question, office speak was born.

In the 1950s, two schools of thought began to emerge. At Carnegie Mellon, academics were working on what they called management science—a theory of decision-making inspired by the computers that had come out during World War II. Meanwhile, at MIT, three professors—Douglas McGregor, Edgar Schein, and Richard Beckhard—were creating a new field called organizational development.

Schein, now 86, is largely credited with coining the term organizational culture (the linguistic cousin of corporate culture). “In the 1960s, there was an emphasis on humanistic psychology, involving the worker, because then they would work better,” he told me. “We were interested in how groups and leadership could be made more effective. So we started something called the human relations lab.”

A pair of hypotheses rose out of these labs. As McGregor explained in his 1960 book The Human Side of Enterprise, managers could think of their employees in one of two ways: as lazy work-haters who need to be closely supervised (Theory X), or as ambitious self-motivators who thrive in an atmosphere of trust (Theory Y). “This introduced the idea that effective managers believe in their people and trust them and don’t feel that they have to monitor them all the time,” Schein said.

Although the researchers didn’t necessarily favor one theory over the other, Theory Y fit perfectly with the zeitgeist of the 60s. It drew on Abraham Maslow’s increasingly popular theory of the hierarchy of needs, which positioned “self-actualization” as the highest goal of human life. Inspired by Maslow, Michael Murphy and Dick Price founded the Esalen Institute in 1962 to nurture the burgeoning Human Potential Movement, and Look magazine’s George Leonard helped bring it into the mainstream. Theory Y extended this worldview into the realm of work: Jobs, much like meditation and mind-enhancing drugs, were seen as a way to discover untapped inner power and find personal fulfillment. Over the years, the idea has stuck: In 2001, The Human Side of Enterprise was voted the fourth most influential management book in the 20th century by the Academy of Management.

In the decades that followed, academics continued to come up with memorable buzzwords. British psychologist Raymond Cattell repurposed the word synergy, which was originally a Protestant term for cooperation between the human will and divine grace. The UC Berkeley philosopher Thomas Kuhn popularized the term paradigm shift in his 1962 book, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions. And, much later, Harvard professor Clayton Christensen coined the term disrupt, which has become a favorite in today’s climate of start-up worship. But more importantly, academics have had a big effect on how workers work, all thanks to one group of people: consultants.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...-speak/361135/

Think tank:

"A think tank or policy institute, research institute, etc. is an organization that performs research and advocacy concerning topics such as social policy, political strategy, economics, military, technology, and culture"


http://thinktank.mit.edu/

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Old 11-28-2016, 06:18 PM   #2996
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How much money do we all get if the person making the bet proves his own claim wrong?
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:28 PM   #2997
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Think tank is a buzzword therefore a think tank couldnt have possibly invented buzzwords.

Aside from that tautology in my opinion and in many definitions of think tank it's private nonprofits that are distinct from the traditional academic read watch and funding process. Looking at your MIT think tank they are assembling a group of thinkiners distinct from the traditional MIT research process. Your examples appear to be regular academic research creating buZwords

In your posts it appears that buzzwords are started and MIT and Carnegie Melon which are both schools and therefore not think tanks. If think tank just means anywhere that research takes place then you have created a tautology of your own and the debate is moot.

Last edited by GGG; 11-28-2016 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:29 PM   #2998
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At this point I'm pretty sure if i were to meet acgold in person, I'd be able to see his internal organs.

But he'd probably want me to put $1000 before he conclusively proves me wrong.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:30 PM   #2999
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If you gave me the remedial version of this sentence, a thesaurus and three days I couldn't have come up with that.

This made me literally LOL...well done.
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Old 11-28-2016, 06:31 PM   #3000
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
How much money do we all get if the person making the bet proves his own claim wrong?

http://www.kas.de/wf/doc/kas_7042-15...f?050810140439
On the influence of think tanks:


"Think tanks have a long history of playing an important role in the formulation of domestic and international policy in the US. The origins of think tanks can be traced to America's Progressive-era traditions of corporate philanthropy, its sharp distinction between legislative and executive branches of government (which creates few barrier to entry into the policy making process), the desire to bring knowledge to bear on governmental decision making and inclination to trust the private-sector to “help government think.” As think tanks have grown in number and stature, scholars and journalists have begun to examine more closely the many factors that have led to their proliferation, factors that include... "



Century of the self; standard issue marketing information directly involving Bernays. All of you should watch this before saying another word, which you probably won't.



"The Century of the Self is a 2002 British television documentary series by filmmaker Adam Curtis. It focuses on the work of psychoanalysts Sigmund Freud and Anna Freud, and PR consultant Edward Bernays.[1] In episode one, Curtis says, "This series is about how those in power have used Freud's theories to try and control the dangerous crowd in an age of mass democracy.""


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Last edited by AcGold; 11-28-2016 at 06:38 PM.
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