PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

Re: Illegal Immigration from Mexico. How come no one talks about a crack down on the Republican and Democrat owned corporations that are the ones providing under-the-table payment to Mexicans?

This is where the government can actually address the problem in an area they actually have jurisdiction, some tools at their disposal and hence can make an impact. If they can't change the economic conditions at a macro level that incentivize Mexicans to come to the US, they sure as hell can take action against business owners that employ illegals at the local level. The ones that knowingly skirt taxation laws, ignore employment and OSHA rules and on the list goes. This is who the braying masses in Ohio and Wisconsin should be referring to when they're chanting about locking someone up.

you'd have to find illegals and these companies? what about individuals hiring illegals? I'm illegal and a mow lawns for cash around the neighborhood. Who's going to know?

[CliffFletcher]

Illegal immigration is such in inflammatory subject because anyone who opposes it is denounced as a bigot, which pisses off a lot of people who are simply law and order types, not to mention legal immigrants who resent the illegal immigrants taking shortcuts.

And then there's the class aspect. The flow of cheap labour into the USA benefits wealthy Americans by keeping costs down (ever wonder why restaurants are so cheap in the U.S.?). But it's the working class who see their wages suppressed by the surfeit of labour. So I can see how working class Americans deeply resent being lectured on the subject by affluent liberals who benefit from cheap dining, nannies, and cleaning ladies.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

so what's the best way to track people who overstay their visas? how does Canada track this? what if they have children during their visa stay?

I don't think it's a tracking issue. If someone enters legally, there will be records of them entering/leaving and when their papers expired.

It's more about enforcement. Police have more important and pressing things to deal with and wealthy people make money from the labour of undocumented residents. The best way to combat it would be to more effectively monitor, audit and punish companies that use undocumented labourers in a way to avoid paying taxes and benefits. The problem is, those people also tend to be politically powerful. That's why all this business about Trump being "anti-establishment" is BS. His own companies partake in the grand scheme just as much as anyone.

The best way to reduce "illegal" immigrants is to legitimize them. That's probably not the answer the Trump base wants to hear though.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Thor

The Southern Poverty Law center recently added Maajid Nawaz as an anti-muslim extremist..... Maajid is a Muslim and a reformer, this is what we mean by regressive left.

Not to mention they also include Aayan Hirsi Ali.


http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...remist/505685/

I'm not sure I understand your point, are you defending Richard Spencer or simply attacking the SPLC and the "regressive left"?

I don't know that it's really up for discussion regarding Richard Spencer. He is proudly racist and a white nationalist and is the person who coined the term alt right as a way to normalize white nationalism.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I can't remember which poster it was that wanted a Trump hat for ####s and giggles. Well, why not some MAGA Christmas Ornaments? Elite priced at $149!

I ordered a hat on election day as a joke. Now Trump keeps emailing me surveys to help MAGA. His first 100 days plan has a survey to help them focus on priorities. I also got a thank you email the day after election. Apparently he couldn't have done it without my contribution and belief in MAGA.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

What did Trump do or say to threaten Black people? Is it possible that a lot of them agreed with his stances on immigration? Maybe the fact that a signifcant portion of minorities voted for Trump means he's not the boogeyman your constant wailing makes him out to be.

And I say this as someone who would've voted for Hillary, I just can't stand statements like "If you voted for X person you should be ashamed." I dare you to say to that to an actual African American that voted Trump.

Is this a joke? I mean he never openly said he wants to gas all blacks in a chamber but he's blatantly racist towards Blacks, didn't rent to blacks, said he didn't want blacks counting his money and much, much more racist things so yes I stand by my comment. If you're black and voted for Trump its shameful. And his stance on immigration isn't going to do anything for them. As we can all already see he lied to the people and most of what he said was a lie. The few people who will have more jobs and money at the end of his presidency will be Donald Trump and friends.

And I'm in Canada so very hard to say it to anyone's face that voted for Trump.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

^You need to stop acting as if black peoples' blackness is inherently the thing that should matter most to them and should drive all their voting decisions. This is like when people acted like any gay person who voted for the GOP was a traitor. People aren't just their skin colour, they may have other reasons that, for them, are more important than Trump being racist, or racist things he said 20 years ago. We might disagree with them but don't rob them of their ability to decide what they care about based on their race.

Not to mention I'd bet that the vast majority of the voting populace never heard about those quotes.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The best way to reduce "illegal" immigrants is to legitimize them. That's probably not the answer the Trump base wants to hear though.

This doesn't seem like a very good idea generally though. Doesn't that create the incentive to try to get across the border illegally, if the response to doing so is, "Congratulations! You made it through the gauntlet. Welcome to America, citizen!"

This was precisely the problem in the early part of the Syrian Refugee crisis with Greece - if you stayed in your country and applied through the normal process, it'd take forever and there was a good chance you'd never get through it. But if you made it onto the shore, you were granted sanctuary. People were basically trying to get across water using any method they could, and a large proportion of them were dying. That just seems like a cruel policy.

[burn_this_city]

https://shop.donaldjtrump.com/produc...m_source=e_a-a

Here's a better shot of the red cap Christmas Ornament, I feel like it's making Christmas great again one house at a time.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Is this a joke? I mean he never openly said he wants to gas all blacks in a chamber but he's blatantly racist towards Blacks, didn't rent to blacks, said he didn't want blacks counting his money and much, much more racist things so yes I stand by my comment. If you're black and voted for Trump its shameful. And his stance on immigration isn't going to do anything for them. As we can all already see he lied to the people and most of what he said was a lie. The few people who will have more jobs and money at the end of his presidency will be Donald Trump and friends.

And I'm in Canada so very hard to say it to anyone's face that voted for Trump.

hmm blacks aren't immigrants though, their stance on immigration should be like the whites. They should be the most upset about illegals taking their jobs.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Companies would never let illegal immigrants become legal because then they'd have to, you know, pay them legal wages. So yeah, never happening. America needs illegal immigrant labour. If Trump actually kicked out 11 million illegals, the American economy would meltdown and people would be losing their #### when their grocery bills go up 60% or more. It's a great way to drive voter anger, but nothing much will change there. Economically too important to the country, fair or not. The day the average Trump voter wants to work backbreaking labour for the equivalent of $3/hour is when illegal immigration will go away. But as citizens entitled to welfare, why would they?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

I'm not sure I understand your point, are you defending Richard Spencer or simply attacking the SPLC and the "regressive left"?



I don't know that it's really up for discussion regarding Richard Spencer. He is proudly racist and a white nationalist and is the person who coined the term alt right as a way to normalize white nationalism.

Yeah, bizarre defence of the alt-right and white nationalism/extremism. I doubt it's sincere, rather a shoe-horning of anti-SPL rhetoric because they messed with his dude.

Then again, humanism did give rise to nazism and genocide, so it's hard to tell where humanists fall on the celebration of white nationalism.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Then again, humanism did give rise to nazism and genocide, so it's hard to tell where humanists fall on the celebration of white nationalism.

Wow, are we here again? This is precisely the argument that the Christian right was making against Hitchens ten years ago. He responded, of course; this was an entire chapter of God is Not Great.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

They should be the most upset about illegals taking their jobs.

Why should blacks be more upset than white, yellows, or browns?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This doesn't seem like a very good idea generally though. Doesn't that create the incentive to try to get across the border illegally, if the response to doing so is, "Congratulations! You made it through the gauntlet. Welcome to America, citizen!"

This was precisely the problem in the early part of the Syrian Refugee crisis with Greece - if you stayed in your country and applied through the normal process, it'd take forever and there was a good chance you'd never get through it. But if you made it onto the shore, you were granted sanctuary. People were basically trying to get across water using any method they could, and a large proportion of them were dying. That just seems like a cruel policy.

I don't disagree. I was mostly being tongue-in-cheek. I don't know how deal with this situation to be honest. The way things are currently set-up is already enticing the migrants in a way though. There is no shortage of people willing to pay undocumented workers. At least if they are legitimized, the people paying them (and thereby avoid paying benefits, taxes and decent salaries) would lose the incentive to entice them. Maybe it's just a shell game... I dunno.

With the Syrian refugees, it didn't help that Germany was inviting them over, but not offering them a way to get there. This is part of the reason why I didn't equate Brexit with Trump. With Brexit, it was exposed how little control countries had over their own affairs when one of the powerhouses didn't look at how what they were doing affected anyone else. Slightly different than the Trump situation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Illegal immigration is such in inflammatory subject because anyone who opposes it is denounced as a bigot, which pisses off a lot of people who are simply law and order types, not to mention legal immigrants who resent the illegal immigrants taking shortcuts.

And then there's the class aspect. The flow of cheap labour into the USA benefits wealthy Americans by keeping costs down (ever wonder why restaurants are so cheap in the U.S.?). But it's the working class who see their wages suppressed by the surfeit of labour. So I can see how working class Americans deeply resent being lectured on the subject by affluent liberals who benefit from cheap dining, nannies, and cleaning ladies.

Let's be very honest here. Illegal immigration and its effects is a culture war issue that not a lot of people know much about. The media has done such a poor job of explaining the subject that the average American doesn't understand wtf is going on. It is an issue that has been blown out of proportion and used as a wedge between ideological voters.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

hmm blacks aren't immigrants though, their stance on immigration should be like the whites. They should be the most upset about illegals taking their jobs.

Blacks aren't immigrants? Any color can be a immigrant.

And this has nothing to do with my post. Someone said that maybe they voted for him because of immigration and jobs but we all know Trump won't change a thing regarding illegal immigration.

And if you think their stance should be like whites why would they be the most upset about illegals taking their jobs?

[CliffFletcher]

Here's a thought-provoking article written in the wake of the Brexit vote, but which is also applicable to Trump's victory, as they're both part of the same populist wave:

#Brexit, the populist surge and the crisis of complexity

...In most Western countries, globalisation has been feeding rising inequality between those two groups, and there is no evidence that it could be any other way. The populist surge that is now at play is, to a large extent, a reaction of those who have been on the losing side of this trend. They tend to be on average rather older, more rural and less educated than those who have benefited from globalisation or aspire to make their way into the service-based, globalised urban ecosystems and have reasonable prospects of succeeding. Deep down, however, the divide is much more about social class than about age or education. Our reluctance to recognise this reflects the extent to which class issues have become taboo in Western societies. We don’t like to talk about class divisions, we don’t want to see them, or we pretend they don’t exist or they are not anymore relevant, but that doesn’t make them go away.

The rise of populist movements is therefore a sign that a growing number of voters tend to perceive themselves as being on the losing side of things. Whether this perception corresponds to a statistical reality for all of them is debatable, but largely irrelevant: in politics, perception is reality. A growing sense of anxiety is spreading among those voters, as well as resentment and anger against an economic and political system that they believe is failing them. This is pushing an increasing number of them towards political movements that promise a clean break from this existing status quo or sometimes a return to a preceding state of affairs presented as more satisfactory or more reassuring. These movements’ narratives need not be coherent, credible or even sane; as long as they resonate with voters’ resentment or anger, they get increasingly popular. And most of the arguments typically used to try to lure voters away from these populist movements are ineffective or even counterproductive.

More than globalisation itself, the underlying cause of the populist surge might in fact lie in the slow disappearance of economic growth at global level, and in particular in the West. Almost a decade after the onset of the global financial and economic crisis that erupted in 2007-2008, the world economy remains weak and the hoped-for ‘recovery’ elusive. Everywhere, the economic policies conducted since then have largely failed to trigger the return to growth that was expected after the ‘Great Recession’. The unprecedented monetary stimulus unleashed by the world’s main central banks may have prevented a complete collapse of the global financial system and then kept it afloat, but it has done little to stimulate the productive economy. The only significant factor that has kept the global economy going in recent years – China’s runaway state-driven, debt-fuelled overinvestment, overcapacity build-up – is now slowing down sharply, pushing world growth further down.

This dearth of economic growth is causing significant disruption and generating major challenges in world that had previously become accustomed to rapid expansion, and where growth has come to be considered as the ‘normal’ and almost ‘natural’ state of things. In the West in particular, businesses assume that their revenues and profits should expand, consumers that their purchasing power and living standards ought to go up, governments that their tax revenues will naturally climb over time. Lenders and investors assume that borrowers will be able to repay their debts and businesses to pay dividends. All make their spending and investment decisions, as well as related long-term financial commitments, on the basis of the widely shared assumption that the economy will grow. Voters, in turn, assume that political leaders will maximise growth and use its proceeds to constantly increase societal welfare. To a certain extent, economic growth has come to form part of the Western social contract, and its absence is perceived by some as a breach by government of its tacit contractual obligations...

...The growing popular revolts against globalisation, the EU, or multiculturalism are signs that our societies are already struggling to uphold their level of complexity and are subject to strong forces that are pulling towards a break down to a lower complexity level (i.e. localised economies, national governance, homogeneous societies, etc.)...

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

hmm blacks aren't immigrants though, their stance on immigration should be like the whites. They should be the most upset about illegals taking their jobs.

And they are. I spoke to a ton of black folks in Texas this weekend that voted Trump.

[photon]

Full transcript of Trump's meeting with the NYT yesterday. People around him want to keep him from doing press conferences because without the one way street that's a rally or a youtube video it's so obvious how poorly informed he is. And when he doesn't have a script to go by he flounders.

Still reading through it, but more confirmation of what he considers credible sources of information; he talked about the Climategate emails as if they were a real thing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/23/us...ranscript.html

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Thor

The Southern Poverty Law center recently added Maajid Nawaz as an anti-muslim extremist..... Maajid is a Muslim and a reformer, this is what we mean by regressive left.

Not to mention they also include Aayan Hirsi Ali.


http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...remist/505685/

The SPLC calls him what he is. If you read the reports instead of listening to this guy whine about the classification he deems as being unfair you would understand the classification. sometimes these classifications are for the individual's protection so when, as a person of interest, he comes into a. Immunity the local LEOs know what type of crap can possibly go down. When a guy labels himself as an activist, and he goes against the vast majority of his community to the point they view his views as extreme, you get to deal with a label. You know, kind of like some of the environmentalist out.