PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[photon]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Anyways, the parallels are very interesting, businessmen, rich,,etc.

Berlusconi went about it a different way, instead of hijacking a party Berlusconi created a new party and then used all his TV networks to become popular. Though Trump was a reality TV personality so was already somewhat of a celebrity.

Using the state for personal gain we'll see.

[calgaryblood]

I do agree with him though when he says if you're African American and voted for Trump it's shameful.

It's actually shameful if anyone voted for Trump but especially if you're a minority or a woman.

Her fake tears were pretty funny though. He made a great point by saying that word as wrong as it was. What he said didn't effect a single thing but they voted for racist, sexist people who will make a difference and not a good one.

[GirlySports]

im unhappy, i want to see the wall.

i am glad he's listening to people about torture.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I like the fact that he used that word, not because I approve of the term or I think that it is right, but the shock value of actually getting people to understand the magnitude of what was said is necessary. If you PC his quote then it is effectively hiding the views cretinous figure who is currently in a high position in the White House.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I do agree with him though when he says if you're African American and voted for Trump it's shameful.

It's actually shameful if anyone voted for Trump but especially if you're a minority or a woman.

Her fake tears were pretty funny though. He made a great point by saying that word as wrong as it was. What he said didn't effect a single thing but they voted for racist, sexist people who will make a difference and not a good one.

I don't agree These shouldn't be groups. Everyone should just vote for their best interest individually.

For example I'm a minority and I think immigration is a big problem.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't agree These shouldn't be groups. Everyone should just vote for their best interest sexindividually.

For example I'm a minority and I think immigration is a big problem.

The African-Americans I know who voted for Trump did so because they believe immigrants are taking away their jobs.

Down here there is a lot of friction between African-Americans and Haitian immigrants .

Years ago, during the first waves of Haitian immigration, employers took advantage of the Haitians and offered them lower wages.

That didn't last long, but African-American
workers were already displaced by it.

A black schoolteacher friend of mine was told "I'm not black, I'm Haitian.I don't have to listen to you."

Sent from my iPhone m

[ernie]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

im unhappy, i want to see the wall.

i am glad he's listening to people about torture.

People coming across an unsecured border is a problem that is rapidly declining. Really illegal immigration is a problem that has been declining the last decade (no small part of that is likely due to the free trade agreements so better jobs are easier to come by in Mexico...we'll see what happens if they try to blow those agreements up). But the real illegal immigration issue is people who have legit visas and overstay the length of those visas. Most illegal immigration today gets it's start from perfectly legal means. The demographics have changed over the last 10-15 years for people entering the country via the mexicao-us border...it used to be migrant workers and whole families. Now it has shifted strongly to smugglers and children/partial families fleeing from turmoil in central america. And that is not likely to change with a bigger wall. The smugglers and dealers will still smuggle and deal. THe people fleeing turmoil looking for asylum will continue to do so.

A wall is going to do very, very little.

I also take issue with the statement in your other post that everyone should vote for their own best interests. To me that is the exact problem the US has. There is no concept of greater good as a society as a whole or helping your neighbour (despite the preponderance of churches that like to preach just that). It's me me me me me me me all the time. Until that stops there will constantly be massive divisions. It is stopping though...slowly but surely each generation of kids is taught to be more inclusive than the last. To give serious thought about others and not just yourself. It's just taken the US a 100 more years than any other developed nation to figure it out.

[Senator Clay Davis]

So I hate to go a little bit backwards to the media discussion, but the past two days have shown that the media has been both a failure, and has also done well, it just depends what media. TV media the entire election was an abject failure, and their meeting with Trump Monday shows this. They agree to an OTR conversation, which is exactly what Trump wants, and predictably Trump controls the narrative and gets to embarrass the TV media by making the story about he teed off on them. He more or less did the same the entire election, and they never adapted because they were desperate for ratings first and foremost (CNN especially).

Print media on the other hand did much better. The New York Times yesterday had their meeting cancelled initially because they refused to give an OTR meeting. They held firm, and it was Trump who ultimately folded. And look at how it turned out, the NYT meeting made Trump look bad and wild and all over the map, something he would have been able to control in an OTR setting. Then you add in the good work we consistently saw from the Washington Post, and the print media was actually not bad at all this election. And post election, subscriptions to the NYT and WaPo have both gone up, while I'd imagine CNN's post election ratings are back to dreadful.

[Drak]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

The wall still seems like it's too much of a waste of money to happen, since we know Mexico isn't paying for it. There's been a little wavering, but whether it happens or not remains one of the many mysteries of what exactly Trump will do.

I think if there is a wall it will consist of some added chain linked fencing and more border security personnel.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Drak

I think if there is a wall it will consist of some added chain linked fencing and more border security personnel.

That has already been done. Increased patrol and vigilance coupled with upticks in the Mexico economy thanks to free trade agreements (and other things) has resulted in an illegal border crossing drop of over 90% in the last 10-15 years. It's a dog whistle problem. Not a real one.

I'll go out on a bit of a limb...if Trump and his group of, ahem, "economic nationalists" get to do what they want you will see start to see an upswing in illegal immigration from Mexico again. And a wall isn't really going to stop people whether it's a real physical wall or a wall because there are more agents for every mile of border.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ernie

People coming across an unsecured border is a problem that is rapidly declining. Really illegal immigration is a problem that has been declining the last decade (no small part of that is likely due to the free trade agreements so better jobs are easier to come by in Mexico...we'll see what happens if they try to blow those agreements up). But the real illegal immigration issue is people who have legit visas and overstay the length of those visas. Most illegal immigration today gets it's start from perfectly legal means. The demographics have changed over the last 10-15 years for people entering the country via the mexicao-us border...it used to be migrant workers and whole families. Now it has shifted strongly to smugglers and children/partial families fleeing from turmoil in central america. And that is not likely to change with a bigger wall. The smugglers and dealers will still smuggle and deal. THe people fleeing turmoil looking for asylum will continue to do so.

A wall is going to do very, very little.

I was thinking of how writing Mexico out of NAFTA would impact economic migration. I wonder if Trump's team ever considered that. You could build a wall and make it harder to cross, but it will be impossible to stop the migration completely. It is a situation that Canada doesn't really deal with. We have one land neighbour and our standard of living is similar, so you don't see the migration issues. We bring in migrant labour (mostly from Mexico and Central America) as needed, but it is very controlled.

The U.S.-Mexico border is similar to the Canada-U.S. border in some ways. Just like with Canada and the U.S., many people in the southwest U.S. have friends and family that live on either side of the border and there is a cultural area of influence that straddles the border. I think it's morally unacceptable to lock the two sides out completely. I really don't know what the answer is, but a wall certainly isn't it.

Honestly though, NAFTA was set up to fail from the beginning. Free trade agreements like this assume not just free flowing products and money, but also free flowing labour. Ideally, Americans, Mexicans and Canadians would be able to go to each other's country for jobs and similar earning potential. It somewhat works between Canad and the U.S., but Mexico was never fully integrated. The wealthy realized it was too convenient to have a source of cheap labour on the same continent. For as much as the U.S. and Canada complain about jobs going south, Mexico was sold a rotten bill of goods as well. The people there were convinced that NAFTA would bring their standard of living up to par with the rest of North America. That obviously never happened.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by ernie

People coming across an unsecured border is a problem that is rapidly declining. Really illegal immigration is a problem that has been declining the last decade...

US border patrol apprehended over 46,000 illegals trying to cross the southern US border in October alone. Those are just the people they caught. Rapidly declining or not that's insane.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by New Era

The Alt-right

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...ernative-right

The Southern Poverty Law center recently added Maajid Nawaz as an anti-muslim extremist..... Maajid is a Muslim and a reformer, this is what we mean by regressive left.

Not to mention they also include Aayan Hirsi Ali.


http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...remist/505685/

“They put a target on my head. The kind of work that I do, if you tell the wrong kind of Muslims that I’m an extremist, then that means I’m an target,” he said. “They don’t have to deal with any of this. I don’t have any protection. I don’t have any state protection. These people are putting me on what I believe is a hit list.”

Not that he took well to his inclusion on its merits, either.

“I’m the one who’s a Muslim in this!” he said. “I’m listed there with people such as Pam Geller? It’s unbelievable.” He pointed out that he does things like appear in an Intelligence Squared debate arguing for the proposition—against Ali, in fact—that Islam is a religion of peace. (“I lost the vote,” he said, with a tinge of bitterness.) He has also won praise for battling Islamophobes in the press.

The report cited several counts against Nawaz. One is that he tweeted a cartoon of Muhammad—an intentionally provocative act, given that many Sunnis find it blasphemous to depict the prophet, but one that doesn’t fit neatly into the “anti-Islam” category. (Most #####es don’t object at all, but in any case, is simply committing a blasphemous act anti-Islam?) A second is that Nawaz visited a strip club in London during a bachelor party, which is true, tasteless, and seemingly irrelevant to the matter at hand.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I do agree with him though when he says if you're African American and voted for Trump it's shameful.

It's actually shameful if anyone voted for Trump but especially if you're a minority or a woman.

Her fake tears were pretty funny though. He made a great point by saying that word as wrong as it was. What he said didn't effect a single thing but they voted for racist, sexist people who will make a difference and not a good one.

What did Trump do or say to threaten Black people? Is it possible that a lot of them agreed with his stances on immigration? Maybe the fact that a signifcant portion of minorities voted for Trump means he's not the boogeyman your constant wailing makes him out to be.

And I say this as someone who would've voted for Hillary, I just can't stand statements like "If you voted for X person you should be ashamed." I dare you to say to that to an actual African American that voted Trump.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I can't remember which poster it was that wanted a Trump hat for ####s and giggles. Well, why not some MAGA Christmas Ornaments? Elite priced at $149!

[GirlySports]

so what's the best way to track people who overstay their visas? how does Canada track this? what if they have children during their visa stay?

[nik-]

haha $149 Christmas ornament of the President elect. I mean you just have to admire it at some level. So brazen. And finished with 14K gold of course, you can't make this #### up.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I am very much hoping that $149 ornament is made in China too. How amazing would that be? Also, the second part of the e-mail might be the funniest part of it. "Mr. Trump makes a point of proudly saying Merry Christmas every chance he gets". I do have to admit the level of grifting is impressive.

[PostandIn]

Re: Illegal Immigration from Mexico. How come no one talks about a crack down on the Republican and Democrat owned corporations that are the ones providing under-the-table payment to Mexicans?

This is where the government can actually address the problem in an area they actually have jurisdiction, some tools at their disposal and hence can make an impact. If they can't change the economic conditions at a macro level that incentivize Mexicans to come to the US, they sure as hell can take action against business owners that employ illegals at the local level. The ones that knowingly skirt taxation laws, ignore employment and OSHA rules and on the list goes. This is who the braying masses in Ohio and Wisconsin should be referring to when they're chanting about locking someone up.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I am very much hoping that $149 ornament is made in China too. How amazing would that be? Also, the second part of the e-mail might be the funniest part of it. "Mr. Trump makes a point of proudly saying Merry Christmas every chance he gets". I do have to admit the level of grifting is impressive.

I'm willing to bet that even the "Made in the USA" stickers that they use to cover the "Made in China" label will be made in China.