People have a lot of belief in Hamilton. lots of Jets fans even 2 years ago were still pining for the draft to be different and wishing we had drafted Hamilton instead of Scheifele.
Coyotes have a lot of pieces that would interest me as a Flames fan. One of their younger forwards like Crouse, Dvorak, Strome, Keller. Understandably some of those guys might not be on the table. If we could get one of them and say Michael Stone for Dougie and a lesser forward/prospect then I could get behind that
I thought Hamilton - outside of the first month or so to start last season - was pretty good.
This year, all defencemen not named Engelland have had absolutely disastrous games defensively. Often, the entire defensive corps on the same night.
This leads me to believe that Hamilton is probably a pretty damn good defencemen, but things are going terribly wrong with the Flames. Sure, if a team wants to trade for him to what amounts to a stupid over-payment, then by all means trade him - trade anyone for that matter if the return is a stupid over-payment. I would just bet that Hamilton is way better than he has been playing, and the rest of the defencemen - Giordano and Brodie in particular - are indeed of a much better quality than what we have been seeing.
I don't know what it is - system, confidence, funk, communicable disease, coaching, or temporarily possessed by the unholy suck demons - but I would put money that all 3 turn it around at some point, and the backend becomes a strength for this team. I would bet Hamilton becomes one of the most important cogs on the team in the years to come.
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Hamilton's been no worse than the rest of the D IMO. I can't think of a guy who's had a completely good run (Kulak finally had his stinker against the Rangers).
I'd rather they try a new coach before they start to try and retool on the fly.
I'm okay with trading Hamilton since besides Brodie, he's the only D we have with real value (no, 33 year old Mark Giordano who is on year 1 of a 6 year, almost 7 mill a year deal and playing like trash doesn't have any value). If the decision is made to retool, they're going to have to part ways with good players to make it happen.
Hamilton isn't garbage. He isn't the top-pairing guy a lot of fans assumed they were getting, either. He's a big guy who can skate pretty well and has a good shot. That's about it. He's poor defensively, and doesn't appear to think the game very well. And he has no grit or intensity to speak of.
He's looking like he'll develop into a #4 d-man who's a pp specialist. You're either going to have to pair him with a very good defensive-minded partner, or find some other way to shelter him from dangerous opponents.
And for fans who assume he will get better defensively, they might want to consider that defense prospects are rated on their hockey IQ and defensive play for a reason - teams don't simply draft the most offensively talented d-men and assume the defensive part of their game will automatically improve to reliable NHL level. A lot of players who are bad on the defensive side of the puck at 17 are still bad at 27.
Is Hamilton done developing at the age of 23?
How many defenders the age of 22-23 are number one guys?
No grit or intensity to speak off? Definitely had flashes of both this season.
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper
- 5th in overall ice-time among defensemen on the team under Hartley and Gulutzen
Does that matter so much? Is Hamilton lower on the depth chart then Wideman who has been sat while healthy seven times in two different stretches?
I'm afraid they might. I still remember when Darryl Sutter went crazy with trades.
I'm worried that Treliving might do stupid and desperate crap trying to save his coach and in extension himself. (Because the Gulutzan hire makes Treliving look terrible right now.)
That was over seven years ago. I don't think there is anything to worry about here because of all the things that Treliving has revealed about his own managerial acumen, "stupid" and "desperate" are not among his attributes. He strikes me as far too analytical to do anything dramatic after a bad run in the first 16 games of the season.
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Originally Posted by woob
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Is Hamilton done developing at the age of 23?
How many defenders the age of 22-23 are number one guys?
No grit or intensity to speak off? Definitely had flashes of both this season.
Does that matter so much? Is Hamilton lower on the depth chart then Wideman who has been sat while healthy seven times in two different stretches?
It tells me a lot that a player who as a Flame, has played under 2 different coaches just cannot gain the trust of his coaches. He had a clean slate going into this season and is still making the same mistakes he made last season on a consistent basis this season. He's been on the ice for 11 of the 17 goals allowed in the teams 4 game losing streak. That's unbelievable considering he averaged only 17 minutes of ice time in those games.
It tells me a lot that a player who as a Flame, has played under 2 different coaches just cannot gain the trust of his coaches. He had a clean slate going into this season and is still making the same mistakes he made last season on a consistent basis this season. He's been on the ice for 11 of the 17 goals allowed in the teams 4 game losing streak. That's unbelievable considering he averaged only 17 minutes of ice time in those games.
Yet he had the trust of a Claude Julien, who is a better coach than either of the two the Flames have had (...and is also potentially a free agent himself this summer).
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I think if his value is as high as it was when we acquired him, then we should trade him. We apparently have all these great individual defensemen, but the sum of the parts seems to have net negative returns.
It's not so much that I hate Hamilton, but I like Brodie better in the long term and I don't think anyone is taking Giordano at his contract. Hamilton is the guy that I think is least needed but still garners a decent return. Much more time on this team though, I think his value will drop.
I wasn't a huge fan of the acquisition to begin with as I didn't see a gentle-giant offensive defenseman as our biggest need at the time.
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Yet he had the trust of a Claude Julien, who is a better coach than either of the two the Flames have had (...and is also potentially a free agent himself this summer).
Still, these are 2 legitimate experienced NHL individuals who are watching each player shift by shift. They know better than you or I who is playing well and who isn't. He isn't just not playing well either, he's actually hurting the team. How can one justify playing Hamilton more when he's a -10 in the last 4 games? Not even Claude Julien could justify that. A new coach isn't going to fix the problems that are plaguing Dougie Hamilton. He needs to start playing considerably better now before this team is completely out of the playoff picture for the 2nd consecutive year whilst we wait for one of the weakest links of the team to get their act together.
Still, these are 2 legitimate experienced NHL individuals who are watching each player shift by shift. They know better than you or I who is playing well and who isn't. He isn't just not playing well either, he's actually hurting the team. How can one justify playing Hamilton more when he's a -10 in the last 4 games? Not even Claude Julien could justify that. A new coach isn't going to fix the problems that are plaguing Dougie Hamilton. He needs to start playing considerably better now before this team is completely out of the playoff picture for the 2nd consecutive year whilst we wait for one of the weakest links of the team to get their act together.
Just like a new coach isn't going to fix the problems that Gaudreau, Monahan, Brodie, Giordano, and Bennett are experiencing?
Saying Hamilton needs to start playing considerably better now before this team is completely out of the playoffs is probably what's wrong with this forum right now. Hamilton can't make-up for Jokipakka, Kulak, Giordano, Brodie, and Wideman's failures. Their failures impact Hamilton's play just as much as Hamilton's failures impact their play. The problem with the team right now is the team itself, not any one individual player.
If, when the autopsy is run on this season (and let's not kid ourselves, it should already be underway - the season is dead), it is deemed that Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, Gaudreau, Monahan and Bennett all suck at hockey and they're the reason we're losing - then the rebuild has to start from scratch...but something tells me that just isn't the case. It's not on any one individual player, the team is failing as a team. When we have this many players failing to play up to individual expectations, something else has to be at work. The reality is that at this stage, if the team systems/coaching staff aren't to blame, then we're in a lot of trouble.
Last edited by ComixZone; 11-14-2016 at 03:36 PM.
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Does anyone truly consider Hamilton to be part of the core? I would be all in favor of shipping him out for a max domi or something that can give the team some heart.
Until the defensive "system" that the Flames are currently embroiled in stops sucking, I can't see how one can even evaluate the D this year. You can't simply separate the men from the method unless there has been some period of consistency. And there hasn't been.
The degree of suckage shown by each level of the Flames G-D-F varies from game to game, but none have yet to show any consistency. (Maybe - just maybe - the Backlund line could be evaluated - but that's it.)
By way of example, think about your next performance review. Let's just say you've had a rough time in your life over the past period, or the company just merged, or got rid of a zillion people and everyone is struggling with new management. Good time for a review? Probably not.
All the D, with the exception of Kulak who is "allowed" mistakes right now, are decent players at some level. Some have shown flashes of brilliance in the past. Let's get them back to that state and THEN think about trades. Now is not the time.
Does anyone truly consider Hamilton to be part of the core? I would be all in favor of shipping him out for a max domi or something that can give the team some heart.
If you could get a guy like Domi for him, yeah I'd do that. I doubt there's any teams interested in a one for one deal though, at least one the Flames would like
If you could get a guy like Domi for him, yeah I'd do that. I doubt there's any teams interested in a one for one deal though, at least one the Flames would like
Max Domi is all right but he's a LW (this team badly needs a skilled right shot RW) and it would take more than just him to land Hamilton as top defensemen are worth more than wingers.
Max Domi is all right but he's a LW (this team badly needs a skilled right shot RW) and it would take more than just him to land Hamilton as top defensemen are worth more than wingers.
