PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[blankall]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

When he says this stuff about his daughter imagine what he thinks of other women. He thinks women are objects.

"Yeah, she’s really something, and what a beauty, that one. If I weren’t happily married and, ya know, her father . . . ”

Objects who should run multinational empires? He's groomed his daughter to take over his business.

Trump is rude and off the cuff, and we could spend all day reading into the politically incorrect things he says.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think this is important. What are those reasons?

Why are only some minority groups being singled out? How do they differ from other minority groups?

I think Asians assimilate well into Western society. I know that sounds condescending but I'm proud of that. The other groups can sometimes be a problem and immigration is a problematic issue for all countries , it's not racist to say that we are all concerned about it.

As for the election, i don't like it when minorities are used as pawns. These are difficult issues that eventually have to be solved by both sides. The government and the ethnic groups themselves.

Pretty difficult to expect African-Americans to assimilate when they've been segregated, abused, and enslaved since they were originally brought to the continent.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think this is important. What are those reasons?

Why are only some minority groups being singled out? How do they differ from other minority groups?

I think Asians assimilate well into Western society. I know that sounds condescending but I'm proud of that. The other groups can sometimes be a problem and immigration is a problematic issue for all countries , it's not racist to say that we are all concerned about it.

As for the election, i don't like it when minorities are used as pawns. These are difficult issues that eventually have to be solved by both sides. The government and the ethnic groups themselves.

I think that a large part of the equation is that by and large, Asian-Americans are well educated in highly competitive fields, and thus they rarely turn to crime or substance abuse. That said, Indian-Americans are also Asian-Americans, and they face far more discrimination than would, say, a Chinese-American.

While black people are pretty much always victims of racism in this country, I think that other races face the heaviest racism in waves. Twenty years ago there wasn't as much vitriol against Latinos, because there wasn't the panic over illegal immigration that now exists. Americans of Middle-Eastern descent are currently facing intense racism because of fear of terrorism. When terrorism was kept in its bubble in the other hemisphere, Americans ignored it and people weren't as actively racist against people who might be from Pakistan/India/etc. Then 9/11 happened, and it gave a face to the fear, and people reacted with fear and hate.

Meanwhile, Asians are often given a pass on racism now, but in WW2 times, Japanese Americans were placed in internment camps, because white Americans were afraid after Pearl Harbor.

Hell, white people in America are sometimes racist if you're not the right kind of white, as in how they treated Irish immigrants in the past, etc.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Only 55% support it and I don't think religion is ignorance because being ignorant would mean they don't know better. Hate is hate regardless of how they get there IMO.

Didn't look, just subtracted 37 from 100. 55 is still over half though. And I agree with you that it's hateful no matter what, but I don't think the religious types are being intentionally hateful. They're ignorant of the hate they're promoting, if that makes sense?

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

in China it's two polar opposites. 100% against gay marriage but abortions are commonplace. Obviously not religion driven, it's actual hate.

It's not even close to 100%. According to polls 39% support gay marriage. While not as good as the U.S.A it's not that far off.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by blankall

Objects who should run multinational empires? He's groomed his daughter to take over his business.

Trump is rude and off the cuff, and we could spend all day reading into the politically incorrect things he says.

I don't see how that makes a difference? So because he's successful and has a lot of money and can give it to his daughter then it's ok for him to say those things? Honestly don't see what you're trying to say.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

I think that a large part of the equation is that by and large, Asian-Americans are well educated in highly competitive fields, and thus they rarely turn to crime or substance abuse. That said, Indian-Americans are also Asian-Americans, and they face far more discrimination than would, say, a Chinese-American.

While black people are pretty much always victims of racism in this country, I think that other races face the heaviest racism in waves. Twenty years ago there wasn't as much vitriol against Latinos, because there wasn't the panic over illegal immigration that now exists. Americans of Middle-Eastern descent are currently facing intense racism because of fear of terrorism. When terrorism was kept in its bubble in the other hemisphere, Americans ignored it and people weren't as actively racist against people who might be from Pakistan/India/etc. Then 9/11 happened, and it gave a face to the fear, and people reacted with fear and hate.

Meanwhile, Asians are often given a pass on racism now, but in WW2 times, Japanese Americans were placed in internment camps, because white Americans were afraid after Pearl Harbor.

Hell, white people in America are sometimes racist if you're not the right kind of white, as in how they treated Irish immigrants in the past, etc.

I think Asians have earned that pass. We try our best to assimilate. We didn't suddenly become well educated, we worked hard.
Perhaps I'm just cheerleading and I am wrong in thinking others an earn it too.

African-Americans have been suppressed forever and it's wrong. But I haven't heard Trump say disparaging things about them unless I'm mistaken.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I don't see how that makes a difference? So because he's successful and has a lot of money and can give it to his daughter then it's ok for him to say those things? Honestly don't see what you're trying to say.

You're saying he sees his daughter as some kind of object, when in reality he sees her as more of an equal. He's chosen her to take over his business, over his sons. It's just a bad example.

[GirlySports]

we even have English names to help you out

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by blankall

You're saying he sees his daughter as some kind of object, when in reality he sees her as more of an equal. He's chosen her to take over his business, over his sons. It's just a bad example.

I'm not saying anything, Trump is. He's the one who has made several sexual references about his own daughter. If that's not objectification then I don't know what is.

I still don't see how him giving her his empire makes a difference. What he said didn't change, what he's done to objectify and sexually assault/harass women doesn't change because of the money he gives them.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think Asians have earned that pass. We try our best to assimilate. We didn't suddenly become well educated, we worked hard.
Perhaps I'm just cheerleading and I am wrong in thinking others an earn it too.

African-Americans have been suppressed forever and it's wrong. But I haven't heard Trump say disparaging things about them unless I'm mistaken.

Asian-Americans also generally have come to the US of their own free will, after coming from countries that are just as advanced economically as the US (admittedly Asian countries also have issues with mistreatment of those in poverty and other human rights issues, but those that have moved to the US generally are the fortunate, not the poverty-stricken). There's also the issue of many Asian women being brought into the US in shady environments, human trafficking and the like (nail salons are a hotbed for this in the US, there was an article written about it a few years ago, I'll have to see if I can find it), and those women aren't likely to be victims of systemic racism because they aren't viewed as a threat. They're keeping silent to keep themselves safe, so they aren't ever going to draw attention to themselves unnecessarily.

Black people, on the other hand, were brought here by force, treated as subhuman, as chattel. And even after the US finally decided slavery was bad, they used other ways to keep them down, systemically, in ways that still exist down to this day.

[blankall]

You can't compare the experience of different minorities.

Educated people tend to have educated children. The black community in America has a unique history due to slavery. We are talking about entire communities who were slaves and then forced into impoverished ghettos. When the entire community is in trouble, the trouble perpetuates through generations. You can't just tell them to go to school and get jobs, when its so much harder to do that.

Things are changing, but its a slow process. Every year the proportion of blacks in colleges rises. The other issue is that it's not ancient history either. Jim Crow laws were in force until 1965. Rosa Parks' act of defiance took place in 1955. A lot of black people alive today remember those events. So it's strange that we can't see why they don't have money to pass through generations. The vast majority of white college students in North America get financial help from their parents of some kind.

[blankall]

You can't compare the experience of different minorities.

Educated people tend to have educated children. The black community in America has a unique history due to slavery. We are talking about entire communities who were slaves and then forced into impoverished ghettos. When the entire community is in trouble, the trouble perpetuates through generations. You can't just tell them to go to school and get jobs, when its so much harder to do that.

Things are changing, but its a slow process. Every year the proportion of blacks in colleges rises. The other issue is that it's not ancient history either. Jim Crow laws were in force until 1965. Rosa Parks' act of defiance took place in 1955. A lot of black people alive today remember those events. So it's strange that we can't see why they don't have money to pass through generations. The vast majority of white college students in North America get financial help from their parents of some kind.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Asian-Americans also generally have come to the US of their own free will, after coming from countries that are just as advanced economically as the US (admittedly Asian countries also have issues with mistreatment of those in poverty and other human rights issues, but those that have moved to the US generally are the fortunate, not the poverty-stricken). There's also the issue of many Asian women being brought into the US in shady environments, human trafficking and the like (nail salons are a hotbed for this in the US, there was an article written about it a few years ago, I'll have to see if I can find it), and those women aren't likely to be victims of systemic racism because they aren't viewed as a threat. They're keeping silent to keep themselves safe, so they aren't ever going to draw attention to themselves unnecessarily.

Black people, on the other hand, were brought here by force, treated as subhuman, as chattel. And even after the US finally decided slavery was bad, they used other ways to keep them down, systemically, in ways that still exist down to this day.

Can I say The Orient? That separates the middle east and the indian subcontinent.

I think your 2nd part is correct but 1st part is incorrect. Most immigrants from the orient were part of the workforce (the coolies, god i'm using bad words) or escaped war (China and Japan WWII) or Communism (China, Vietnam, etcc..) It's only in the last 10 years or so that they have been the rich immigrants as Communist China is no longer that communist or that poor. The Filipinos are a somewhat new phenomenon cornering the workers visa market.

Many of them have been brought in through shady environments but have succeeded. The nail salon business is very lucrative.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Asian-Americans also generally have come to the US of their own free will, after coming from countries that are just as advanced economically as the US (admittedly Asian countries also have issues with mistreatment of those in poverty and other human rights issues, but those that have moved to the US generally are the fortunate, not the poverty-stricken).

I think this might need to be a little more refined by generation. This was certainly not the case in many of the earlier years when China (in particular) was the sick man of Asia. This entire post is focused on China as it's the area I have the most knowledge on.

Older generations, especially those from before the ~40s, came to Canada and USA specifically seeking economic wealth. Chinese would sometimes speak of USA and Canada as "Gold Mountain", the notion that you could come to North America, earn your fortune, and send money home to your family. My grandparents were part of this sweep (grandfathers moving to Canada and sending the money to family/grandmother so they could immigrate themselves). This level of desperation and desire for money is why Canada imposed its Head Tax and eventual immigration bans; all other levels at attempting to restrict immigration didn't do enough to slow the incoming Chinese population.

After that there were many refugees of either Japan's brutal campaign into China and those seeking to escape communist rule. These were slightly better off but still at a time when China was still quite poor compared to North America.

Only in the last 10-20 years has there been a shift to an economic balance and a real immigration for immigration's sake.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by blankall

You can't compare the experience of different minorities.

Educated people tend to have educated children. The black community in America has a unique history due to slavery. We are talking about entire communities who were slaves and then forced into impoverished ghettos. When the entire community is in trouble, the trouble perpetuates through generations. You can't just tell them to go to school and get jobs, when its so much harder to do that.

Things are changing, but its a slow process. Every year the proportion of blacks in colleges rises. The other issue is that it's not ancient history either. Jim Crow laws were in force until 1965. Rosa Parks' act of defiance took place in 1955. A lot of black people alive today remember those events. So it's strange that we can't see why they don't have money to pass through generations. The vast majority of white college students in North America get financial help from their parents of some kind.

Education is one thing but i think immigrant assimilating is a big issue too.
I think too much is made of education today. Earlier today in this thread we discusses white-collar/blue-collar and skilled/unskilled workers. All contribute to the country.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by kirant

I think this might need to be a little more refined by generation. This was certainly not the case in many of the earlier years when China (in particular) was the sick man of Asia. This entire post is focused on China as it's the area I have the most knowledge on.

Older generations, especially those from before the ~40s, came to Canada and USA specifically seeking economic wealth. Chinese would sometimes speak of USA and Canada as "Gold Mountain", the notion that you could come to North America, earn your fortune, and send money home to your family. My grandparents were part of this sweep (grandfathers moving to Canada and sending the money to family/grandmother so they could immigrate themselves). This level of desperation and desire for money is why Canada imposed its Head Tax and eventual immigration bans; all other levels at attempting to restrict immigration didn't do enough to slow the incoming Chinese population.

After that there were many refugees of either Japan's brutal campaign into China and those seeking to escape communist rule. These were slightly better off but still at a time when China was still quite poor compared to North America.

Only in the last 10-15 years has there been a shift to an economic balance and a real immigration for immigration's sake.

and hong kong 97, those guys were rich

[kirant]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

and hong kong 97, those guys were rich

True. I simplified there and kind of just limited things to mainland China. Hong Kong is its own strange set of circumstances.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I think Asians have earned that pass. We try our best to assimilate. We didn't suddenly become well educated, we worked hard.
Perhaps I'm just cheerleading and I am wrong in thinking others an earn it too.

African-Americans have been suppressed forever and it's wrong. But I haven't heard Trump say disparaging things about them unless I'm mistaken.

I think part of it is that Asian cultures (broadly speaking) adhere more to the philosophy of "the nail that stands out gets pounded down" rather than "the squeaky wheel gets the grease," and generally are very concerned about communal interests. As a result, they blend in. So much so, in fact, that other minority groups sometimes lump them in with white people when discussing racially charged matters, i.e., the issue doesn't apply to them.

But don't think you're sitting so pretty that this government might not knock on your door and take your driver's licence away. They know the menace y'all pose to honest white American commuters

As for black folks, they were screwed to begin with, screwed throughout history, and are screwed now. Their screwedness is not only ingrained in American institutions but in American culture. And yes, Trump has said disparaging things about them. Five minutes with Google will establish this for you. And even if he hadn't, the policies the Republican party espouses clearly further the institutional and cultural barriers black people face in the States. They'll just continue to be drugged, locked up, and disenfranchised as they have been for decades.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by blankall

You can't compare the experience of different minorities.

Educated people tend to have educated children. The black community in America has a unique history due to slavery. We are talking about entire communities who were slaves and then forced into impoverished ghettos. When the entire community is in trouble, the trouble perpetuates through generations. You can't just tell them to go to school and get jobs, when its so much harder to do that.

Things are changing, but its a slow process. Every year the proportion of blacks in colleges rises. The other issue is that it's not ancient history either. Jim Crow laws were in force until 1965. Rosa Parks' act of defiance took place in 1955. A lot of black people alive today remember those events. So it's strange that we can't see why they don't have money to pass through generations. The vast majority of white college students in North America get financial help from their parents of some kind.

This is all true.

However, it's important to realize there's a subset of white people in America that today that share many of the disadvantages impoverished black people have; it's the group commonly called white trash. These are mostly descendants of people who came to america as indentured servants, were effectively slaves for years when first arriving as a result, and then were left to fend for themselves with little or no help, much like black people after slavery ended. As such, while it's true that many whites get financial help from their parents, if your family is still living in an impoverished trailer park, that's almost certainly not the case. The cultural issues facing impoverished black people and impoverished white people are different, but not so different that they aren't comparable.