NHL Attendance Report - 2011-12

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I mean just anecdotally does Phoenix or Anaheim or Brooklyn really have a significant difference in attendance when they're in 10th place and 6 points out but need a miracle to get in over the other two teams compared to being 12 points out and playing out the stretch?

And would the alternative of having the super teams bring in way more casual viewers on TV and also some more tickets from visiting arenas for the super teams and actually make the sport more popular overall? It seems it's working in the NBA despite the anger of hardcore fans.

Obviously there's flaws in my theory as I just thought of it and spit it out, but maybe an interesting debate?

More viewers doesn't mean more money, but TV deals, ticket sales and merchandise would.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

You say that as if it's a fact. Do you have a link to support your claims?

Lol. Just to be clear, you made a bunch of bs claims and ridiculous assertions and when I called BS your first instinct is to ask for a citation? Good luck with that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

More viewers doesn't mean more money, but TV deals, ticket sales and merchandise would.

Did you seriously just type out that more viewers on TV doesn't mean more money but TV deals do?

I would like to quote you in a certain thread but I need to know that you actually meant it first. Thank you.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Lol. Just to be clear, you made a bunch of bs claims and ridiculous assertions and when I called BS your first instinct is to ask for a citation? Good luck with that.

Jesus how are you able to function in life with such piss poor reading and comprehension skills? I feel bad for your poor parents who have to care for you even into your twilight years.

My first quote asked questions. It said "Less fights?", so how is that a claim or assertion? My second post literally started with the words "I think...", so really son, don't use big boy words like assertions if you don't know what they mean.

Leave the thinking to those capable, OK?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Did you seriously just type out that more viewers on TV doesn't mean more money but TV deals do?

I would like to quote you in a certain thread but I need to know that you actually meant it first. Thank you.

Well TV deals last many years. The current national one is over a decade long. So if a given year draws in a high viewership, the network cashes in, but if the 9 years after are a flop, then the next TV deal will be significantly worth less and therefore less revenue for the league

[Ashasx]

Make minor penalties last a full 2 minutes regardless of whether the team scores.
No longer allow teams to ice the puck on the penalty kill.
Call penalties (hooking, holding, slashing, etc.) as they are read in the rule book.

Do these three things and I guarantee the game opens up more. Special teams become even more important, so teams will avoid the clutch and grab in fear of being penalized. Maybe the top powerplay team in the league operates at ~35% instead of ~25%.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Make minor penalties last a full 2 minutes regardless of whether the team scores.
No longer allow teams to ice the puck on the penalty kill.
Call penalties (hooking, holding, slashing, etc.) as they are read in the rule book.

Do these three things and I guarantee the game opens up more. Special teams become even more important, so teams will avoid the clutch and grab in fear of being penalized. Maybe the top powerplay team in the league operates at ~35% instead of ~25%.

Special teams have already been maximized in the past to "create" more excitement and it didn't work that well. (first starting in 2005 after the lock out).

The trade off of more goals and power play excitement was no flow in the games and just constant annoyance with silly calls everywhere that stopped play. Aiming at special teams to improve the excitement is looking for a fake fix to hockey. it has been in the past and will be in the future.

You need to improve the actual even strength game, if you're looking to improve.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Special teams have already been maximized in the past to "create" more excitement and it didn't work that well. (first starting in 2005 after the lock out).

The trade off of more goals and power play excitement was no flow in the games and just constant annoyance with silly calls everywhere that stopped play. Aiming at special teams to improve the excitement is looking for a fake fix to hockey. it has been in the past and will be in the future.

You need to improve the actual even strength game, if you're looking to improve.

Improving the 5 on 5 game is the exact reason why I listed those 3 things. The idea is to make penalties so costly that teams will avoid the clutch and grab game that is neutering the sport.

Ideally this would mean less powerplays per game than what we get right now, and the game opens up even strength.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Make minor penalties last a full 2 minutes regardless of whether the team scores.
No longer allow teams to ice the puck on the penalty kill.
Call penalties (hooking, holding, slashing, etc.) as they are read in the rule book.

Do these three things and I guarantee the game opens up more. Special teams become even more important, so teams will avoid the clutch and grab in fear of being penalized. Maybe the top powerplay team in the league operates at ~35% instead of ~25%.

I fully agree it's the clutching and grabbing. And hopefully they address the goalie issues. But I'm not sure how much of an effect full penalties will do. A given Pk is probably around 80% effective already (I'm not sure what the real numbers are at the top of my head) so for a team potting 250 goals, only like 50 goals. The bulk of scoring has to be tackled at the even strength level IMO, but like you said, would be addressed by clearing up the clutch and grabs and opening things up

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Improving the 5 on 5 game is the exact reason why I listed those 3 things. The idea is to make penalties so costly that teams will avoid the clutch and grab game that is neutering the sport.

Ideally this would mean less powerplays per game than what we get right now, and the game opens up even strength.

Okay, but you realize your post could be read directly from NHL talking points coming out of the '05 lock out though, right? Like......directly. I'm sure that exact quote could actually be dug up by one or more league representatives, lol.

Of course the goal would be for it to open up the game because penalties are so costly, but we have a living, breathing example of this and the result was just a whole bunch of chincy calls with the teams not really letting up that much as long as both teams were getting nailed, which eventually led to so much crying by fans and media that they were forced to tone it down.

[Ashasx]

I think league entertainment peaked in 08/09, and officials stopped calling penalties correctly.

So, a lot of changes coming out of the lockout did a lot of good. The NHL just stopped following them.

[calgaryblood]

Ticket prices are insane for what you get at an NHL game. Add to that a lot of teams are playing boring styles of hockey and it doesn't make for a good experience.

I've been to two games so far this season. The Buffalo win felt like a loss even though we won. Boring hockey where both teams sucked. Does that make me, a pretty die hard fan want to go back? Heck no. Can't imagine the casual fan.

And I paid less than half the face value. Would rather watch at home.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Poor example using the NBA and actually a case study in how maybe parity isn't the great fix that leagues have been looking to achieve. The NBA's popularity is soaring right now. A few years ago they were actually in danger of being unseated by the NHL in the four major sports.

If anything I'm now starting to wonder if the extra revenue from teams that are slightly out of the playoffs, but not actually going to make it isn't all that much more than when teams are really out of it. And maybe the extra revenue from having elite teams that fans come out in other cities to see and tune it on TV to see more than make up for the missed revenue in lack of parody.

Soaring where? In Ontario maybe because the Raptors are decent? According to ESPN the attendance figures the NBA is very similar to the NHL and like the NHL those announced attendance figures are nowhere near butts in seats.

http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/homePct

The NFL is down as well and it's simply a sign of the times with lots of competition for the dollar as well with so much TV coverage of sports a lot of people choose to watch on their couch for free as opposed to spending hundreds on a couple of seats for a regular season game. IMO Flames fans are down right now because the team's in the dumps and the city is in a recession. If the Flames were on top of the league right now we wouldn't be talking about how crappy the hockey is.

[getbak]

Attendance is always lower during the first half of the season. Once the NFL season ends, the NHL numbers go up. That happens every year.

Even still, almost half the league is at 100% or more. 21 teams are over 95%. 22 are over 90%. 26 are over 80%. Only Carolina is under 70%.


Despite one poster saying that they're "falling fast", they actually aren't. In some cities, it's down. In others, it's up. In most cities, it's about the same.


When this thread was started, 14 teams were averaging at least 18,000 a night. Now, that number is 17.

In 2011-12, 5 teams averaged below 15,000. This year, 5 teams are averaging below 15,000. Only the Islanders and Coyotes were below 15,000 both seasons.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Soaring where? In Ontario maybe because the Raptors are decent? According to ESPN the attendance figures the NBA is very similar to the NHL and like the NHL those announced attendance figures are nowhere near butts in seats.

http://www.espn.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/homePct

The NFL is down as well and it's simply a sign of the times with lots of competition for the dollar as well with so much TV coverage of sports a lot of people choose to watch on their couch for free as opposed to spending hundreds on a couple of seats for a regular season game. IMO Flames fans are down right now because the team's in the dumps and the city is in a recession. If the Flames were on top of the league right now we wouldn't be talking about how crappy the hockey is.

I'll have to dig it up ErickEstrada, but they were referring to TV viewership, it's apparently booming.

[corporatejay]

difference between the NBA and hockey is that the sport is almost a second thought. Merchandise (shoes, shirts, athletic gear) could almost sustain the league alone. There are probably 50 players or more who could play for free and still make 10 million plus in revenue.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Ticket prices are insane for what you get at an NHL game. Add to that a lot of teams are playing boring styles of hockey and it doesn't make for a good experience.

I've been to two games so far this season. The Buffalo win felt like a loss even though we won. Boring hockey where both teams sucked. Does that make me, a pretty die hard fan want to go back? Heck no. Can't imagine the casual fan.

And I paid less than half the face value. Would rather watch at home.

Too true. I actually prefer the experience at home. No long lines to use the bathroom. Good priced beer and snacks. Play a little NHL 17 during the intermissions, rewind a play or check the forums to see what other people see.

Maybe I'm just an introvert, but between trying to find parking and overpaying for a drink, I don't care for it. Plus I like the commentary on TV because I don't memorize player's numbers.

[curves2000]

I don't know about the other fans on this forum but I am really starting to notice changes in my personal behavior with regards to the Flames.

Born and bred Calgarian and have always been a massive supporter of the team both in terms of tickets, merchandise and concession, apparel etc.

With the way the season has started, I have been very blah to spending actual cash on this team because the entertainment value just hasn't been worth it. I use to park and get 2 beers for $20, now my parking spot at a parkade is $15. A few friends have invited me to a few games where I have decided not to go and I have found myself declining. Since I am getting the "free" ticket I usually end up buying the booze, parking and dinner so there goes $200 on a Tuesday to see a spanking of the hometown team.

The cost of attending the games is going higher and higher and the merchandise I buy is getting more expensive. I will admit I am a jersey snob and only buy authentic on ice gear, well last I checked it was $325+ I believe $90-100 for lettering from Flames Fanattic.

There seems to be a little bit of a shift in terms of spending for both regular fans and corporations and their contributions. Teams in Canada might find they need to start some promos here for a lot of things since the Cup drought has left an entire generation of Canadian fans without much to cheer for other than losing the last few games for high draft picks and the hope that all these "young guys" start to show some growth. Long ways away from any sort of Canadian powerhouse teams here.

[The Fonz]

Something that would improve the on-ice product miles, without changing a single rule, would be if someone could manufacture a puck that did not bounce/flip/roll. The game has no flow when passes keep getting bobbled, and the puck bounces away while a guy is handling it.

Engineers - please make a puck that stays flat to the ice.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Something that would improve the on-ice product miles, without changing a single rule, would be if someone could manufacture a puck that did not bounce/flip/roll. The game has no flow when passes keep getting bobbled, and the puck bounces away while a guy is handling it.

Engineers - please make a puck that stays flat to the ice.

That's just a factor of bad ice.

The best way to fix the game would be to get rid of a point system that encourages teams to play for ties, and to follow up those ties with the most contrived, gimmicky system of tie breaking and point allocation possible.