Fire Gulutzan/Give him Coach of the year All Purpose Thread

[Par]

I don't think they will fire Gulutzan this season but changes do need to happen, the Special teams are dead last in the league, the coaches that run, the Special need to be replaced. This team needs a fire lit under them, if I was Brad Trevling, I would look to make a trade, even a minor one(a major trade would be better for all purposes).

Something needs to be done, we are -12 in goal differential(only Vancouver is worse with -14), the Special Teams are in the dump, if this keeps up, than by Christmas, we may be out of the playoff picture.

[bubbsy]

So any predictions for when treliving is forced to make the publoc vote of confidence speech to the media?

I'm just frustrated by the franchise. They can all be fired and replaced I don't even care anymore.

Treliving is the gm but many of his key decisions have proven useless thus far.

Hamilton looks pretty meh...

Gio contract will be painful as early as this season...

Goalie handling last year

Coaching staff hiring decisions this year

Inability to get someone to play top line rw.

Dumb pto's kept too long to allow for chemistry building preseason.

Signing grossman

The key improvement that this year was to bring better goals against, better special teams. Team sucks in all 3 areas. Now the team is offensively challenged too with the best players being the worst performers night after night.

[Machiavelli]

I haven't been as quick to jump on the coaching staff, but I'm noticing several alarming things:

• As has been mentioned several times, their best skaters are on pace to have horrible seasons. The players must be accountable, but Giordano/Brodie/Monahan/Gaudreau have taken such a dramatic turn for the worse that there's gotta be something there
• Powerplay looks even more tragic than last season. Didn't think that was possible. Why is the person who was at least partly responsible for the Senators anemic PP in charge of this?
• Playing Grossmann at all. Enough said.
• Waiting so damn long to re-unite Giordano and Brodie. That one is so much of a no-brainer, it actually scares me it took several games to happen
• Overall inconsistency with pairings on D. For god's sake, stop blending this up

Nitpicky things:

• Wouldn't mind Gulutzan blowing up at a ref once in a while. I think you're allowed a couple of f bombs here and there. Why is Johnny's stick allowed to be chopped in half, out of his hands? Also, couldn't kill him to show a bit of emotion after a big goal
• Chiasson on the top line, please never again. It hasn't mattered because Gaudreau is neutering whoever he plays with, but come on
• These quotes from post-game yesterday:

"I thought LA came out with a good start and it put us on our heels a little bit," Flames coach Glen Gulutzan said. "I think if we could've come out of the first period with the score being 0-0, got out of that last minute; then I thought that would've put us in a position to regroup in the second and come out better. I just thought they came real hungry and ready. That's what happens."

Why didn't your team?

"I just didn't think we were prepared to play in the beginning. I didn't think it was our best," Gulutzan said.

Um, that's your job.

"I thought we were a little bit intimidated. We came out better in the second, but we couldn't sustain it. They're a real good hockey club. They had their groove on today, the LA-style game. We just couldn't match it. We have to find a way to match it."

Wait, what? Intimidated by another NHL team with a similar record? Are they armed with maces instead of hockey sticks?


I highly doubt any change to the head coach will happen this season, so every single person in that organization needs to be better. Starts with a win in that godforsaken pond.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I haven't been as quick to jump on the coaching staff, but I'm noticing several alarming things:

• As has been mentioned several times, their best skaters are on pace to have horrible seasons. The players must be accountable, but Giordano/Brodie/Monahan/Gaudreau have taken such a dramatic turn for the worse that there's gotta be something there
• Powerplay looks even more tragic than last season. Didn't think that was possible. Why is the person who was at least partly responsible for the Senators anemic PP in charge of this?
• Playing Grossmann at all. Enough said.
• Waiting so damn long to re-unite Giordano and Brodie. That one is so much of a no-brainer, it actually scares me it took several games to happen
• Overall inconsistency with pairings on D. For god's sake, stop blending this up

Nitpicky things:

• Wouldn't mind Gulutzan blowing up at a ref once in a while. I think you're allowed a couple of f bombs here and there. Why is Johnny's stick allowed to be chopped in half, out of his hands? Also, couldn't kill him to show a bit of emotion after a big goal
• Chiasson on the top line, please never again. It hasn't mattered because Gaudreau is neutering whoever he plays with, but come on
• These quotes from post-game yesterday:

Why didn't your team?



Um, that's your job.


Wait, what? Intimidated by another NHL team with a similar record? Are they armed with maces instead of hockey sticks?


I highly doubt any change to the head coach will happen this season, so every single person in that organization needs to be better. Starts with a win in that godforsaken pond.

This post so much. I couldn't have said it better. Gulutzen is constantly making decisions that most coaches don't. I'm not sure why he wants to experiment with every coaching axiom all at once

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by evman150

Fire Eakins already.

Where is Mike Keenan when you need him?

At least Eakins was a fairly hyped and sought after coach when the Oilers hired him and then he was exposed. He was at the time considered a big NHL HC prospect.

I don't think too many people were pounding on Gulutzan's door. And the sad thing is that when you read the Dallas postmortem after they fired him, their team was having the exact same issues as ours is now. This should have been completely predictable.

I feel bad because I am sure he is a great guy, but I don't see anything showing he should be an NHL HC. If it's true that they only gave him a 1-year "show me" deal, then I don't think they were sold either.

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Anyone still defending the hiring of GG is delusional.
He was never the choice of the Flames; just the only guy left when they fired Hartley and couldn't' land their choice replacements.

I think back to the threads after Hartley was fired and the crowd the believed Treliving and co knew what they were doing.
I really do hate to say we told so you...

I agree. When you look at the time line from firing Hartley, who was available, then when they signed with other teams; it seems obvious that they didn't get their guy and then had to sort through the NHL laundry hamper full of sock puppets.

[Gaskal]

We are at the 14th game mark now and at 5-7-1. Pulling up Hayne's article from Oct, where he looks at both Stanley Cup finalist teams last year, who both got new coaches:

After taking over behind the Penguins bench on December 12, his record in his first 17 games was a very pedestrian 6-7-4. But after close to six weeks on the job, the team turned the corner and over the final three months of the regular season, they went 27-9-1 under his guidance for a blazing .743 point percentage (defined as points achieved divided by points available).

Taking over prior to the season for longtime skipper Todd McClellan, the Sharks record on Remembrance Day was a very ho-hum 7-8-0. But similar to what happened in Pittsburgh, the team settled in under the new coach, became comfortable with the changes he introduced, and they went an impressive 39-22-6 over the remainder of the regular season.

Still a bit of a time to feel things out, but they'd better get figured out in a hurry.

[Erick Estrada]

Sure there's time to turn things around but what happened to the Penguins and Sharks was the exception not the norm. Most teams that start terribly never get back on track and this team doesn't have the same talent as those teams.

[kukkudo]

I don't see any other coaches out there unless you want to bring in Mike Keenan haha. But seriously this season has been hot garbage so far.

[calgaryblood]

The scariest comment from those Machiavelli quotes were when he said "we couldn't match it" in regards to the style LA plays. You don't match a style when you don't have the players to play that style. You play your own game and hope for the best. You're not going to beat LA at their game with the Flames roster.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

It's come to the point where it's impossible to deny that Gulutzan has made some very questionable decisions and several glaring mistakes so far.

I want to believe that he just didn't know this roster the way he thought he did coming in. The plan he had for each player and the way he wanted them utilized were just not going to work. This includes most of our back-end. Is GG telling our best players how to play the game? Skilled players do need some freedom to play outside of a structured system. We need pinches, we need Gaudreau cheating for breakaways, etc.

I don't think it's a bad system because obviously our less dynamic players have been playing very well within it. But you can't put players like Bennett on a short leash. They have to be free to make mistakes and have the green light to play THEIR game.

That said, I'm still hopeful that GG can continue to make adjustments to inch this team in the right direction. He's got the season to do it, but hopefully that's not the case for Dave Cameron. And there's no point looking at next year when it's crucial that our top paid players start looking like our top players this season.

[iamca]

I think Brad is on the hook or should be for all of the signing decisions and the organization needs to stress accountability across the board. Head coach, PP and PK coaches, Grossman and PTO signings, and no matter what this season is off to another inconsistent start.

Finding your identity if you have the consistent effort is one thing, but this team has really lacked effort on more nights than not.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I haven't been as quick to jump on the coaching staff, but I'm noticing several alarming things:

• As has been mentioned several times, their best skaters are on pace to have horrible seasons. The players must be accountable, but Giordano/Brodie/Monahan/Gaudreau have taken such a dramatic turn for the worse that there's gotta be something there
• Powerplay looks even more tragic than last season. Didn't think that was possible. Why is the person who was at least partly responsible for the Senators anemic PP in charge of this?
• Playing Grossmann at all. Enough said.
• Waiting so damn long to re-unite Giordano and Brodie. That one is so much of a no-brainer, it actually scares me it took several games to happen
• Overall inconsistency with pairings on D. For god's sake, stop blending this up

Nitpicky things:

• Wouldn't mind Gulutzan blowing up at a ref once in a while. I think you're allowed a couple of f bombs here and there. Why is Johnny's stick allowed to be chopped in half, out of his hands? Also, couldn't kill him to show a bit of emotion after a big goal
• Chiasson on the top line, please never again. It hasn't mattered because Gaudreau is neutering whoever he plays with, but come on
• These quotes from post-game yesterday:

Why didn't your team?



Um, that's your job.


Wait, what? Intimidated by another NHL team with a similar record? Are they armed with maces instead of hockey sticks?


I highly doubt any change to the head coach will happen this season, so every single person in that organization needs to be better. Starts with a win in that godforsaken pond.

Great post, and pretty much my thoughts as well.

More than the line juggling, more than the bad play of the stars, more than anything else so far this season, what really concerns me is those comments from Gulutzan last night.

Those are not the comments of a strong leader.

And I also agree: yell at the ####ing ref once in a while!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I don't care one way or another if GG is fired, but if Johnny, Mony and Gio need a Hartely style coach to be successful then they can be traded also.

They don't need a Hartley style coach. But an NHL calibre coach would certainly help.

[Iniggywetrust]

Okay. I'll play Devils advocate to the negativity. Last night was a tough game. A game, on hockey night in Canada that should have had the team jacked up. And they came out and laid an egg. Every team does that from time to time.

What I've seen the last two week is a good hockey team play a strong system. Outside of the last 10 minutes against the Hawks, this team has looked good. Beating the sharks, Hawks, and Blues. There's still time to adjust to a new system.

All it takes is a couple good bounces to get out top players out of this funk and we'll be good to go.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I haven't been as quick to jump on the coaching staff, but I'm noticing several alarming things:

• As has been mentioned several times, their best skaters are on pace to have horrible seasons. The players must be accountable, but Giordano/Brodie/Monahan/Gaudreau have taken such a dramatic turn for the worse that there's gotta be something there
• Powerplay looks even more tragic than last season. Didn't think that was possible. Why is the person who was at least partly responsible for the Senators anemic PP in charge of this?
• Playing Grossmann at all. Enough said.
• Waiting so damn long to re-unite Giordano and Brodie. That one is so much of a no-brainer, it actually scares me it took several games to happen
• Overall inconsistency with pairings on D. For god's sake, stop blending this up

Nitpicky things:

• Wouldn't mind Gulutzan blowing up at a ref once in a while. I think you're allowed a couple of f bombs here and there. Why is Johnny's stick allowed to be chopped in half, out of his hands? Also, couldn't kill him to show a bit of emotion after a big goal
• Chiasson on the top line, please never again. It hasn't mattered because Gaudreau is neutering whoever he plays with, but come on
• These quotes from post-game yesterday:

Why didn't your team?



Um, that's your job.


Wait, what? Intimidated by another NHL team with a similar record? Are they armed with maces instead of hockey sticks?


I highly doubt any change to the head coach will happen this season, so every single person in that organization needs to be better. Starts with a win in that godforsaken pond.

Every coach says these types of things. You expect him to control the minds of players and have them play a certain way? His job is to lay out a schedule and game plan and try to make sure it's carried out. If players are being sissies on the ice, he can't do anything about that except for playing Bollig over a Sissie like Monahan, which would cause fans to be up in arms, so he's damned either way apparently.

I don't like the head coach either, and clearly you're frustrated and looking to blame someone, but this is petty to start nitpicking his post game quotes that every coach says. It's not like he's allowed to say "Monahan is garbage and Giordano is a #### leader". So what can he say? He just HAS to say something to the media that is somewhat benign. I wouldn't even give a second thought

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Anyone still defending the hiring of GG is delusional.
He was never the choice of the Flames; just the only guy left when they fired Hartley and couldn't' land their choice replacements.

I think back to the threads after Hartley was fired and the crowd the believed Treliving and co knew what they were doing.
I really do hate to say we told so you...

Yeah, you will always have people who blindly eat whatever is out of the hands of the organization. But there was a lot of people who thought firing Hartley was a bad decision.

In hind sight, Hartley made career-years out of a lot of players and only a few were slumping, even in years where the Flames were bottom of the standings. That's the best case scenario for any hockey club. And Hartley was supportive even though he was given a 3-headed goalie monster and young roster.

But GMs have their egos and want to hire their own guys, not the guys of the previous generation, regardless if they're the best man for the job or not

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Wait, what? Intimidated by another NHL team with a similar record? Are they armed with maces instead of hockey sticks?

Great post, I mentioned in the PGT that Gulutzan thinks this is year 1 of the rebuild. He was saying before the game against Washington that the Flames needed to learn from one of the best teams in the league, and now he's saying they're intimidated by LA.

This team is not starting from scratch and should be at the point where winning is becoming an expectation.

I guess they forgot to put that in the job description.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Yeah, you will always have people who blindly eat whatever is out of the hands of the organization. But there was a lot of people who thought firing Hartley was a bad decision.

In hind sight, Hartley made career-years out of a lot of players and only a few were slumping, even in years where the Flames were bottom of the standings. That's the best case scenario for any hockey club. And Hartley was supportive even though he was given a 3-headed goalie monster and young roster.

But GMs have their egos and want to hire their own guys, not the guys of the previous generation, regardless if they're the best man for the job or not

Posts like this is probably why i defend GG more than i should. Getting players to have career years, playing in a river hockey like system, does not mean he is a good coach. Yes top players would love it for individual stats, but its not about individual stats, its about the team winning the stanley cup.

I'm not sure what the lure of Hartely is to some of you? If it was not for some very fluky comebacks in the 2nd year of his contract he would probably regarded much lower. There is a reason that when Roy left the Av's, and there was not much out there coaching wise to be had, that Sakic squashed the rumors in less than 24 hours that they would even think about Hartely as their new head coach.

[Enoch Root]

The fact that the team is struggling so far under Gulutzan does not retroactively make Hartley a better coach.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Posts like this is probably why i defend GG more than i should. Getting players to have career years, playing in a river hockey like system, does not mean he is a good coach. Yes top players would love it for individual stats, but its not about individual stats, its about the team winning the stanley cup.

I'm not sure what the lure of Hartely is to some of you? If it was not for some very fluky comebacks in the 2nd year of his contract he would probably regarded much lower. There is a reason that when Roy left the Av's, and there was not much out there coaching wise to be had, that Sakic squashed the rumors in less than 24 hours that they would even think about Hartely as their new head coach.

Makes playoffs, wins a round against rival, gets career bests out of most of our young core, wins Jack Adams, shows actual leadership behind the bench.

You really don't understand what there was to like about that?

I'm not saying Hartley was necessarily the answer but the timing of letting him go was premature. I would've given him another season with improved goaltending and seen what the results would be.

The Hartley ship has sailed but the Flames had to make sure that whoever they brought in was going to be better and able to take this team to the next level. So far it doesn't look that way.

Not getting Boudreau was a massive mistake by the team. I am still convinced that's who wanted given the timing of Hartley's termination. They miscalculated.