Oct 27 practice

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

This team is too deep with bottom-4 defensemen and bottom-6 forwards.

We need to make a trade because there is no reason for Kulak or Jokipakka to be sitting (and certainly not at the same time). And there is no reason to send Kulak back down, he's earned his time here.

If we do nothing, the expansion draft is going to hurt us a lot more than other teams.

They can only take one player though. So, while there are players we'd rather keep, it won't cripple us or anything.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by cznTiburon

I think with the quality minutes we are getting from stajan and his line this is probably one of the most balanced 4 lines we have seen in recent memory. No real dead weight to speak of. If we can just get Johnny and Monahan going to be a legit top line threat consistently this season we should have more games like our last two and less like our first few

Is it normal for team to spend $6m on their fourth line? Honest question. I think it's a bit expensive for a cap team.. Love their play, but Bouma and Stajan are making 5.3 million combined.

[timbit]

Brouwer has been the Flames best player to date.

Hopefully, it is a minor injury.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Is it normal for team to spend $6m on their fourth line? Honest question. I think it's a bit expensive for a cap team.. Love their play, but Bouma and Stajan are making 5.3 million combined.

If 6 mil is tied up on your 4th line than it means the team has young players outplaying the veterans in order to earn more ice time.

That is a very good thing.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

Is it normal for team to spend $6m on their fourth line? Honest question. I think it's a bit expensive for a cap team.. Love their play, but Bouma and Stajan are making 5.3 million combined.

It's a lot, and it isn't sustainable but I think the Flames get away with it because our second line centre is on his entry level contract still.

As the lines are right now it's

$13,925,000
$6,375,000
$8,800,000
$6,150,000

I think it is planned to spread out talent so I am not surprised at the distribution. Redistribute 12M from D next year should shore things up a bit but I don't expect Stajan and Bouma to continue with those contracts when the team is competeting for real.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

If 6 mil is tied up on your 4th line than it means the team has young players outplaying the veterans in order to earn more ice time.

That is a very good thing.

No, it means you have overpriced vets. It means you have expensive vets that can't outplay 3rd liners

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

If 6 mil is tied up on your 4th line than it means the team has young players outplaying the veterans in order to earn more ice time.

That is a very good thing.

Are you suggesting our 4th line players would be 2nd and 3rd line players otherwise? That would be a disaster.
I believe it says you are overpaying your 4th line. Our 4th line has played pretty well all season but it's only when the top players are going well that we can win. Speaking generally, if we spent $3 million less on our 4th line we could have a much better player than Alex Chiasson playing wing on our top line. That would be a good thing.

[DJones]

If Stajan keeps his play up I wouldn't be surprised if someone is interested in him for a playoff run. The one year remaining might be too much though.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by DJones

If Stajan keeps his play up I wouldn't be surprised if someone is interested in him for a playoff run. The one year remaining might be too much though.

Yes, the Flames will likely want to keep him around for their playoff run.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by DJones

If Stajan keeps his play up I wouldn't be surprised if someone is interested in him for a playoff run. The one year remaining might be too much though.

Yeah, us.

Edit: Beaten by Bigrangy

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

If 6 mil is tied up on your 4th line than it means the team has young players outplaying the veterans in order to earn more ice time.

That is a very good thing.

So what young players are outplaying Bouma and Stajan that are cheaper?

Sure Bennett and Tkachuck for obvious reason.. but Versteeg isn't younger, but is cheaper.

Tkachuck may stick around but not because he's "outplaying" anyone..he's got no where else to go.

Bennett needs the reps to become a bonafide 2nd line C/potential 1st line..

But again, those are essentially given spots. (I'm not saying they didn't earn them, calm down. I'm saying that's the most logical place for them to play)

Before Bennett and Tkachuck, Bouma and Stajan were essentially 4th liners then too. Bouma showed some potential of possibly being more than that, but never panned out..

Younger cheaper players pushing guys down the lineup is great. Having $6m tied up in 2 fourth liners is not very savvy cap management, imo.

Stajan has been the best paid 4th line C for the last 4 years.


Edit: let me be clear, I have no problem with Bouma and Stajan. I dislike $6m+ being spent on the fourth line when the team is so tight against the cap.

Edit x2: had to get to a meeting and was half into my reply, by the time I finished, others had responded and better articulated what I was trying to say.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Okay noted. You dislike 6mil on the 4th line.

Are you forgetting Monahan and Gaudreau who both just got hefty contracts after coming off their ELC? I don't think management saw those contracts coming when the Stajan contract was made. And they were handcuffed into the Bouma contract with his inflated season. 0% of fans were wanting to let Bouma walk due to arbitration though.

Stajan was a 3C when he got his contract and has been 4th line 2.5 years max. He's also the top penalty killer and has been a leader for these young guys. In fact, Stajan and Bouma have been the teams two best penalty killers throughout their contracts (an argument can be made for Backlund and Frolik the past season).

Having 2 fourth line guys as penalty killers is a great way to balance out ice time and saves your big guns for 5 on 5. Not sure what your issue with these two are when they've been solid depth options this season. Every team in the league has contracts like these.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Are you suggesting our 4th line players would be 2nd and 3rd line players otherwise? That would be a disaster.
I believe it says you are overpaying your 4th line. Our 4th line has played pretty well all season but it's only when the top players are going well that we can win. Speaking generally, if we spent $3 million less on our 4th line we could have a much better player than Alex Chiasson playing wing on our top line. That would be a good thing.

Uhhmm yes Bouma and Stajan most definitely can be 3rd line players on other teams.

Are you forgetting where Bouma was a 2nd-3rd liner for us most of last season? And the season before that? Or where Stajan has been a 2nd-3rd line centre for most of his career, and is looking as good as he's ever been as a Flame this season?

But the main thing I'm referring to is that young players step into top-6 roles with million dollar contracts.

Show me a team that has all of their salary tied up in the top-6 or even top-9.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Okay noted. You dislike 6mil on the 4th line.

Are you forgetting Monahan and Gaudreau who both just got hefty contracts after coming off their ELC? I don't think management saw those contracts coming when the Stajan contract was made. And they were handcuffed into the Bouma contract with his inflated season. 0% of fans were wanting to let Bouma walk due to arbitration though.

Stajan was a 3C when he got his contract and has been 4th line 2.5 years max. He's also the top penalty killer and has been a leader for these young guys. In fact, Stajan and Bouma have been the teams two best penalty killers throughout their contracts (an argument can be made for Backlund and Frolik the past season).

Having 2 fourth line guys as penalty killers is a great way to balance out ice time and saves your big guns for 5 on 5. Not sure what your issue with these two are when they've been solid depth options this season. Every team in the league has contracts like these.

Yes. Ignoring contracts, having 3rd and 4th line players excelling on the PK is significant.

[GoJetsGo]

We also have too much money for the current dynamic of our team cap tied up in Wideman and Engelland as well.

Looking at older veterans in the last year or two of their contracts and just exclaiming we're paying too much for bottom line / pair players lacks context. There were reasons / benefits to those players in the early portion of those contracts even if they tailed off at the end. The same is going to be likely of a few other players early in their contracts at present but that's the nature of the league.

The exception being Bouma, who was signed slightly higher than he's probably worth based on an anomalous season before his last contract.

[zyzz]

Funny enough I saw Brouwer today. Didn't look like an injured man.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

We also have too much money for the current dynamic of our team cap tied up in Wideman and Engelland as well.

Looking at older veterans in the last year or two of their contracts and just exclaiming we're paying too much for bottom line / pair players lacks context. There were reasons / benefits to those players in the early portion of those contracts even if they tailed off at the end. The same is going to be likely of a few other players early in their contracts at present but that's the nature of the league.

The exception being Bouma, who was signed slightly higher than he's probably worth based on an anomalous season before his last contract.

Yes precisely. The Flames have the highest paid defense in the entire league. That's where the cap relief is going to be coming from.

[Coach]

Every time I look at our team line up I think "God would it be nice if a top end RW somehow found their way here asap."

I don't mind Chaisson, but how much better would it look with a bonafide top line player there?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Every time I look at our team line up I think "God would it be nice if a top end RW somehow found their way here asap."

I don't mind Chaisson, but how much better would it look with a bonafide top line player there?

That is a nice pipe dream. But very few teams have 3 legitimate top line players.

Crosby is playing with Scott Wilson
Kopitar is playing with Dwight King
Toews is playing with Richard Panik
Ovechkin is playing with Burakovsky
Pavelski is playing with Hertl
Getzlaf is playing with Nick Ritchie
Tarasenko is playing with Lehtera
Stamkos is playing with Namestnikov

Cap era, you can't just stack teams anymore. Fans of the teams above have the same thought "man I wish we had a top line LW/C/RW to play with so and so...there's such a hole there"

[Coach]

Fair enough. Although I don't know much about those players vs someone like Chaisson. I know I would much rather have Hertl or Panik there though. It's more a wish that someone like Poirier, Ferland, Hamilton, etc.. would make a development jump.