whats wrong with our team?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Imagine what your attitude would be if you got $70,731,707 every day you showed up for work.

Now imagine what your attitude would have been if this happened when you were 22 years old and were guaranteed this for 6 years.

That is Dougie Hamilton's life.

How open to coaching would you be? By someone in the same business taking a year to make what you do in 5 work days.


Using Dougie Hamilton as an example but Monahan, Gaudreau, Gio, Frolik, Brouwer, Brodie Wideman, Versteeg,Stajan, Backlund, Engelland are all in a position where most people would not take a lot of BS from their "boss".


Adding to this you had a co-worker decides to hold out who gets special treatment.

Dougie makes a good living but let's not get carried away. You have him making several billion a year.

[Sylvanfan]

Its as simple as the top players on this team are not as good as top players on other teams. The team is more expensive than it is good. They've been a lower to mid level tier team for 19 of the past 20 seasons with one fortunate playoff run. This is a long term problem.

The longest serving guy in his role right now IIRC is Todd Button. He needs to be replaced.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So why do other highly paid players perform well?

Perhaps because they are self motivated and have shown those characteristic before they won the several lotteries.

Maybe they are intelligent enough to adapt their game to a coaches system with the understanding that it might not be best suited to their personal success but that team success is more important.

Maybe the other high performing well paid players value team success more than individual awards.

A player like Toews would appear not to care much about scoring 30-40 goals 100 pts so much as the Hawks winning.

You wouldn't imagine Toews not playing well or complaining/pouting because he is not playing on Kane's line AND is expected to play against the other teams very best players.


There are many many players who got paid too much on potential and never ever played up to that level more than just the Oilers.

[Kidder]

I've seen it a few times where people are calling out Cameron, Sigalet and Gelinas and saying they have to go. Confused why Gelinas is named and not Paul Jerrard? Are roles so clearly defined he gets a pass on the bench while Gelinas up in the pressbox takes heat?

I've also read others saying they wouldn't be surprised if Cameron is turfed in a couple games. I would be absolutely floored if he's let go at any point before season's end at the earliest. I'm not sure what the record for quickest termination is but I'm sure it's a lot more than 10 games and Treliving certainly doesn't seem the type.

Remember fans, it's a process.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Kidder

I've seen it a few times where people are calling out Cameron, Sigalet and Gelinas and saying they have to go. Confused why Gelinas is named and not Paul Jerrard? Are roles so clearly defined he gets a pass on the bench while Gelinas up in the pressbox takes heat?

I've also read others saying they wouldn't be surprised if Cameron is turfed in a couple games. I would be absolutely floored if he's let go at any point before season's end at the earliest. I'm not sure what the record for quickest termination is but I'm sure it's a lot more than 10 games and Treliving certainly doesn't seem the type.

Remember fans, it's a process.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=3646685

[Kidder]

Originally Posted by transplant99

http://www.espn.com/nhl/news/story?id=3646685

I appreciate the response, but the point was termination after a hire.

Savard was starting his third season as coach and even states in the article he knew over summer he was in the hot seat.

Cameron was hired in July. So he's coached 5 games with the franchise. Zero chance he's let go this season no matter the performance.

Now Sigalet... Flames 30th in goaltending last season, reclaiming that honour so far this season... That hammer needs to drop already.

[AcGold]

Bad decision making is our issue. There's a personality conflict or some thing causing them to;

A: Make selfish plays
B: Make low probability plays
C: Make fancy plays over simple fundamental decisions.

Hockey is like poker, similar situations occur frequently and the repeated laws of probability usually determines the outcome. The team is consistently making plays that have less than 50% chance of working. The beauty dangle goal is actually a bad thing because it means the team is making low probability plays repeatedly. It should be

Gain possession of puck
Move puck up ice to a player in an open area that will have time to make another pass to another open player
Gain possession of zone
Look for cross crease pass, if it's not there the puck carrier can stop at half boards and bring it back to the d/trailing forward or fire it behind the net or carry it behind the net if the opposition backs up. Forcing the d to consider multiple options increases probability of establishing a scoring chance.

Flames aren't doing any of those. Get puck, fire it quickly to whoever, bobble puck, skill player gets frustrated tries to score on his own, turns puck over on low probability deke or weak bad angle shot, repeat.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Dougie makes a good living but let's not get carried away. You have him making several billion a year.

He's a contractor that gets paid for 82 work days a year for the 70,731.71
per day.... no matter whether he actually shows up for those work days or not.

getting 70K on any one particular day would be the story of a lifetime for me and most of the general population of hockey fans.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

He's a contractor that gets paid for 82 work days a year for the 70,731,707.32

per day.... no matter whether he actually shows up for those work days or not.



getting 70K on any one particular day would be the story of a lifetime for me and most of the general population of hockey fans.

Your number formatting is off. $70,731,707.32 is $70 million a day.

[fire_starter]

They are suffering from a severe case of NSG.

No S**** Given.

[Finger Cookin]

I guess I'm naive enough to think it's growing pains. You have a group of young players going through their first coaching change, not to mention coming to the rink with big expectations and pressure due to new contracts. In addition to the new coach's voice in the room, you've got a prominent new leader you're getting to know and that means team leadership is finding a new equilibrium as well. And you have two new goalies getting to know the group.

I see a lot of thinking going on during games, instead of naturally reacting. The start hasn't helped anyone's confidence, either. So you have bad habits sneaking back in, or players trying to do too much individually, or overthinking leading to poorly timed or executed passes, decisions, shots, what have you.

It's been ugly. I also think this group is much, much better than they've shown so far, and are capable of much more as a group. It's frustrating watching a team you love to cheer for go through stretches like this, no doubt about it. But I do think we're in for a positive run when this group gets through this stretch. I hope it happens sooner rather than later, but only time will tell.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Your number formatting is off. $70,731,707.32 is $70 million a day.

Not to mention there are 180 working days in the NHL calendar this season, not 82. So the actual figure is $31,944.44 per day before escrow and other payroll deductions.

[madmike]

I'm already reconciled to this being another crap season. Might as well embrace the suck and enjoy the pick.

At least Bennett won't be costing a ton at the end of the year. At this point he'll be lucky to see $3 million per on a longer-term deal.

[Zach]

Not a huge fan of the coach. Also the goaltending has been subpar.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I guess I'm naive enough to think it's growing pains. You have a group of young players going through their first coaching change, not to mention coming to the rink with big expectations and pressure due to new contracts. In addition to the new coach's voice in the room, you've got a prominent new leader you're getting to know and that means team leadership is finding a new equilibrium as well. And you have two new goalies getting to know the group.

I see a lot of thinking going on during games, instead of naturally reacting. The start hasn't helped anyone's confidence, either. So you have bad habits sneaking back in, or players trying to do too much individually, or overthinking leading to poorly timed or executed passes, decisions, shots, what have you.

It's been ugly. I also think this group is much, much better than they've shown so far, and are capable of much more as a group. It's frustrating watching a team you love to cheer for go through stretches like this, no doubt about it. But I do think we're in for a positive run when this group gets through this stretch. I hope it happens sooner rather than later, but only time will tell.

It's hard work being optimistic in this neck of the woods eh? I too think they're better than this but a trip to CP can quickly make you question if you're watching the same game. There have been moments in every game this season when things look like they're coming together but they always manage to blow it. Another poster said confidence and that's what I see. So many terrible passes, bad reads and players trying to do too much. The pressure doesn't help this either. They were expected to be better this season and after a rocky start every player is on the fans chopping block.

A little luck wouldn't hurt either. If Versteeg's shot (was it Versteeg? I can't remember now) rolls another inch over the goal line the Flames could have squeaked out a game last night they had no place winning.

They're going to snap out of it, they have to... And if they don't, well, that's a bummer.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by fire_starter

They are suffering from a severe case of NSG.

No S**** Given.

I disagree.

Look at Gaudreau, he's struggling and you can see it. He puts tons of pressure on himself and as a result he is trying to do too much. He doesn't trust his team mates so he tries to do it all himself. Rightfully so because when he does make a pass the other guys stick is so tight he has no chance on receiving it and eventually bobbles it to the other team.

Monahan is playing with no confidence either. He plays like he's worried about making a mistake. Has he carried the puck into the attacking zone once this year? He gets to the neutral zone and passes it to Gaudreau as almost to say "it's your problem now".

Gio, Brodie and the rest of the defense are making terrible reads out there. They see the struggles of the offence and know that in the past they've been expected to help out. As such you see lots of untimely pinches leading to odd man breaks.

Again maybe I'm watching a different team but saying they don't care seems off base. They're all frustrated and and you can see it in their demeanor.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Its as simple as the top players on this team are not as good as top players on other teams. The team is more expensive than it is good. They've been a lower to mid level tier team for 19 of the past 20 seasons with one fortunate playoff run. This is a long term problem.

The longest serving guy in his role right now IIRC is Todd Button. He needs to be replaced.

I've been talking about this all summer. I'm stunned that a middling talent team like this is up against the cap. This team isn't close to being elite and now they are going to struggle to maintain what they have for good players going forward which means the small handful of quality players they have need to have near career seasons every year for this team to be competitive as there's no money available to bring in any more help via free agency.

[saillias]

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[Galakanokis]

They are thinking rather than knowing and reacting. Hence they are too slow making decisions and that leads to poor choices with regards to passes and shots and leads to turnovers. They are slow on everything they are doing so guys are out of position, passes are in skates and the the play turns up the ice before they can react.

I knew it was going to be a slow start but I didn't quite think it would be this bad. I am not ready to pass judgement on the coaches yet as the top players have looked pretty bad. When they start to turn it around we will have a better idea of the coaches.

[afc wimbledon]

What's wrong with the Flames? nothing, they're a team in the middle of rebuilding who will have up years and down years and it may take a couple of different approaches before something clicks just like every other rebuilding team.

What's wrong with Flames fans? good lord everything! one hopefull year and all of a sudden they go into full Oiler mode, 'that's it, we're going to win the cup, Johnny's the new Fleury, St Louis etc etc'.