Hamilton for Trouba trade. Why not?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Please bring up where Gio was -18 with Hamilton,

This is his game log from last season.

http://insider.espn.com/nhl/player/g.../mark-giordano

Like I said he went -5 in the October stint last season, Brodie was back on October 28th. So most likely November he was repaired up with TJ.

Didn't you hear? Kelly Hrudey said so.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

I told you that I appreciate defense as much as I appreciate offense. I suppose at the end of the year you think because someone has a bunch of points that he's better than everyone below him.... wow. Was Brodie partnered with a Norris Trophy consideration type candidate at 23? You guys are getting silly. LOL Next thing you'll say is Pronger's career sucked because he was no where near Coffee's point total.

Not only do you have no idea what you're talking about, you don't even have a grasp on what others are saying. Ricardow is a huge Hamilton hater.

This discussion was painful to begin with, and now it's devolved into Hamilton detractors unknowingly arguing with each other.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

I told you that I appreciate defense as much as I appreciate offense. I suppose at the end of the year you think because someone has a bunch of points that he's better than everyone below him.... wow. Was Brodie partnered with a Norris Trophy consideration type candidate at 23? You guys are getting silly. LOL Next thing you'll say is Pronger's career sucked because he was no where near Coffee's point total.

Yes.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

Not at all. Did you know that only a few wins can determine whether you make the playoffs or whether you are outside of the playoffs.

A Kiprusoff can determine whether you make or don't make the playoffs.

A stud defenseman like Pronger can determine whether you make the ployoffs or finish outside the playoffs.

It also works for extremely bad players put in very strategic positions on pk or pp with high play time. This can also affect whether a team makes or doesn't make the playoffs.

Gio was -18 with Hamilton, nuff said.

This is obvious stuff guys, come on what's wrong with you? The staff that jumped on board for Hamiton trade should be re-evaluated for further employment.

Your entire premise that one (non-goalie) player can have such a large impact on a team's performance is flawed in the first place. Even the best player in the league, you add him to your team and one player is not affecting your point total margins by that much. Only the absolute best and generational kind of players have that sort of impact... I'm talking like a 5 point+ difference. Someone like Chris Pronger or McDavid

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

The issue I have is this poster is basically using a fabricated comment as a base for his argument.

Sure you can be disappointed to Hamilton's start of the season last year, however saying that he is the sole reason we missed playoffs and it must be true because Kelly Hrudey said so is simply inaccurate.

I never said such comments. Do your research before you spread lies.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Please bring up where Gio was -18 with Hamilton,

This is his game log from last season.

http://insider.espn.com/nhl/player/g.../mark-giordano

Like I said he went -5 in the October stint last season, Brodie was back on October 28th. So most likely November he was repaired up with TJ.

LOL. I assumed he was stating a fact he'd looked up. I should have known better.

[Strange Brew]

I don't know about using points to evaluate/compare defensemen's relative value. It's just one measuring stick. Difference between a 70 point defenseman and a 30 point one is huge. But even then, it doesn't make the higher scoring one more valuable. In addition to how they play in their own zone and without the puck, you have disparity in systems etc.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

I never said such comments. Do your research before you spread lies.

I never said you. I was referring to FlamesFan68.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

I told you that I appreciate defense as much as I appreciate offense. I suppose at the end of the year you think because someone has a bunch of points that he's better than everyone below him.... wow. Was Brodie partnered with a Norris Trophy consideration type candidate at 23? You guys are getting silly. LOL Next thing you'll say is Pronger's career sucked because he was no where near Coffee's point total.

No. We are saying Hamilton alone didn't cost the Flames a playoff berth. We are saying Brodie at 23 wasn't light years better than Hamilton is right now. Using hyperbole to try and make your point doesn't mean the rest of us are just because we disagree with how out there your opinions are.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No, what we have on CP right now is a couple of donkeys who have an irrational dislike for a player and, despite the fact that the vast majority of posters disagree or strongly disagree with them, they just keep posting the same garbage.

I dont dislike the player. Im disappointed. He hasnt been meetung expectations. And again, would love to hook up the lie detector and see how many of the disagree-ers are actually lying.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

I dont dislike the player. Im disappointed. He hasnt been meetung expectations. And again, would love to hook up the lie detector and see how many of the disagree-ers are actually lying.

So because someone has a different opinion than you they must be lying?
Lord almighty.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Ok a 1st round pick and 2 second round picks have zero worth then. You need to give your head a shake, dougie has played horrible so far this season as has most of the flames aside from a handful. Yeah well guess what he hasnt had any goals. Its almost as if you havent watched a single flames game this year

Its almost like there have only been 4 games this year...

People need to chill the **** out. Let's start having these ridiculous discussions 20 - 40 games from now. There is so much hockey left and I can only imagine the kinds of threads we are going to be seeing if these losses continue happening. You would think we were on a 10 game losing streak in mid January. You are starting to embarrass yourselves.

[Psytic]

I don't think Hamilton is bad and I don't think many on here do. The real argument is that we have enough players in his mold that are offensive puck moving d men already. We should consider a lateral move for a more hard-nosed type in a change of scenery deal. I wouldn't be adding to Hamilton if I was making a deal but I might consider a 1 for 1 trade depending on Troubas salary demands. If we have Andersson and Kylington on the team in the future when Gio and Englland retire I feel that that becomes a fairly soft d core moving forward. Might be good to shift a few of the guys for some toughness.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Actually, Hamilton played top pairing minutes off the top (no he wasn't great but neither was his partner). Brodie was gone, remember?

And Brodie also had a whole year of playing with maybe the best 2 way defenceman in the NHL in 2013-14.

And, yeah, I do find 43 points from a 23 year old defenceman fairly impressive, especially if they are in some sort of sheltered limited minutes. That basically means he was playing with Engelland for most of the year - not a way to pick up easy points.

After Hamilton showed he was not ready for prime time (playing withe the best 2-way defenseman in the league) he moved to the 2nd pair where russell was the #3 and Wideman and Hamilton played as needed.



Hamilton's defense partners 2015-16 Russell 42.3% Gio 17.6 % Engelland 14.7 Brodie 10.1 Wideman 6.1

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

So because someone has a different opinion than you they must be lying?
Lord almighty.

That went a little far i shouldnt have used the word lying. I just find it hard to believe the vast majority doesnt believe he has been disappointing thus far this season.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

I dont dislike the player. Im disappointed. He hasnt been meetung expectations. And again, would love to hook up the lie detector and see how many of the disagree-ers are actually lying.

Sure I've been disappointed in Hamiltons play but I've also been disappointed in majority of the Flames players during the course of the season. What does this point prove? That we can't be disappointed in a player without running him out of town?

[Yamer]

This thread has been one of the most surreal experiences of my life.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

That went a little far i shouldnt have used the word lying. I just find it hard to believe the vast majority doesnt believe he has been disappointing thus far this season.

It is too early in the season to form strong opinions about any player.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

I dont dislike the player. Im disappointed. He hasnt been meetung expectations. And again, would love to hook up the lie detector and see how many of the disagree-ers are actually lying.

What was your expectations? Mine was 40-50 point offensive defenseman who had room to improve without the puck. Big body but needed to learn how to push guys around more. 2nd pairing guy who could move the puck effectively and would ride with a more defensive minded guy to protect any gaffs that a 22 year old will make. I wanted a guy with good instincts who would learn from guys like Gio and Brodie to develop a more well-rounded game. A guy with a ton of potential that was wanted by most teams in the league.

I didn't expect a Norris candidate. I didn't expect an error-free veteran who would never make a mistake.

I would totally pass your lie detector because I think he has been pretty much what I expected. Does he have room to improve? Absolutely, no one is arguing that. I just disagree that he has been a huge disappointment.. maybe you were expecting too much of a 22 year old.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

That went a little far i shouldnt have used the word lying. I just find it hard to believe the vast majority doesnt believe he has been disappointing thus far this season.

Johnny/Mony/Elliott/Gio/Brodie have all been disappointing. Yet its 4 games into the season. You can't build any form of a baseline this early into the year.