[Rumour] McKenzie: Gaudreau & Flames are closing gap, but it's still a considerable gap.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I'd say hes way more than 1.5 million 'better' in terms of hockey skill and production (subjective) but the question should be is he 1.5 million more valuable. Absolutely...The gap would be even bigger had Sean not been a well sized faceoff winning responsible young center with arbitration rights. In terms of production, projection and on ice skills its not even something I'm willing to debate.

Even a year ago posters were talking about how Monahan will likely get something like 6 million and Johnny will earn something above 7.

I'm not sure if you're overvaluing Gaudreau or undervaluing Monahan. Johnny is definitely better than Sean, but I just can't see him getting $8M+.

For me, fair deals would be:

$7.25M/8 years
$7M/7 years
$6.75/6 years

But I could be wrong.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MattyC

UPDATE!: I don't care enough to follow up with or press my source for more info, so don't ask me to.

*TRANSLATION*: Please refer all your inquiries to TheScorpion.

[FireItUp]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Just working out the Skittle clause. Gaudreau wants 3 packages of Skittles per diem, Treliving only offering 1.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

I guess you could say I undervalue Monahan. I've always said he is the most overrated player on this forum especially. Good player but not in the Gaudreau class imho. The thing that helps him even get close to that value is the fact he is a center and he has a ridiculous wrist shot. I see Monny as pinky and Johnny as the brain.

The way I see it - anything under 8 years is a massive fail by BT. You give Johnny what he deserves. If we're talking 8 years - I think he deserves more than 7.25 but not much more. Whats the problem with adding the value of an ELC to lock the guy up?

Realistically he gets 7x7 and everyone is happy until some 60 point scrub is signed for 8 million by some team with tons of cap - while Johnny is on all-star point per game season number 4 and in the middle of a 7 year contract earning less than some butt scratchers.

If I was Johnny I would say 8m or bridge deal. I've got faith in myself and I think you guys will end up paying me in a few years after you see what I can do consistently with a good team around me. I think a bridge deal would be a loss for us because I honestly see Johnny dominating the league in the next few seasons.

[Fischy13]

Anyone think that the Flames mentioning and dancing around Tkachuk being here for opening night and maybe longer is to put pressure on JG? "We have your replacement to limp us through your hold out, your only gonna lose money by not accepting this" Flames are likely more than willing to let Tkachuck play his 9 games in that extra LW spot. Could backfire though if the team struggles.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I guess you could say I undervalue Monahan. I've always said he is the most overrated player on this forum especially. Good player but not in the Gaudreau class imho. The thing that helps him even get close to that value is the fact he is a center and he has a ridiculous wrist shot. I see Monny as pinky and Johnny as the brain.

Watch that show again. Pinky is right every episode and forsee's the problem the first minute of each show haha.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Just working out the Skittle clause. Gaudreau wants 3 packages of Skittles per diem, Treliving only offering 1.

Without any leverage, and Monahan only getting a loaf of bread, there's no way he should get more than 2 packages. We have to be careful or Bennett and Tkachuk are going to hold out for 3 Snickers or O'Henry bars.

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

Anyone think that the Flames mentioning and dancing around Tkachuk being here for opening night and maybe longer is to put pressure on JG? "We have your replacement to limp us through your hold out, your only gonna lose money by not accepting this" Flames are likely more than willing to let Tkachuck play his 9 games in that extra LW spot. Could backfire though if the team struggles.

Tkachuk is nowhere close to replacing what Gaudreau brings. I doubt the idea of Tkachuk making the team puts any pressure on Gaudreau's camp.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

Gaudreau will most likely improve from this past season. But how much? What is a reasonable high end expectation of him?

Why? and How?

Gaudreau played last year with Hudler and Monahan.... 34% of the season.

This year it appears he is going to be playing with Monahan and either Chaisson Shinkaruk or ????... not very likely that these 3 guys will total between them over 82 games the 35 pts that Hudler put up in his 57.

If Trouba is complain about playing RD rather than LD maybe Gaudreau is worried about playing with a journeyman checker on his RW.


He was #11 in the league in PP time.

This year you have to expect that Bennett/Backlund/Brouwer and maybe Tkachuk will be given more PP time than Colburne/Hudler/Jones There might not be the tendency for him and Monahan play the first 90 seconds on all the power plays.


He played in a system specifically designed for him to score off the rush. He played on a team that was playing from behind in a lot of games and was hardly ever protecting 1 goal leads for the third period.

These variables might lead to Gaudreau having a great year like he did as a 21 year old and hitting 64 pts.

I can see that the Gaudreau camp might be a bit worried that this summer might be the best time to consider 8+ M for his UFA years.

If the Flames management are not able to get him for close to a Monahan contract it is in the teams interest to get him on a bridge contract.

[Fischy13]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Tkachuk is nowhere close to replacing what Gaudreau brings. I doubt the idea of Tkachuk making the team puts any pressure on Gaudreau's camp.

What LW that the Flames have, is better suited to fill that hole?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Hudler was an anchor for Gaudreau and Monahan much of last season. They carried him around.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

What LW that the Flames have, is better suited to fill that hole?

Tkachuk is playing with Bennett so it's irrelevant. Monahan will have a plug on his left (and right) side if Gaudreau is not signed.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

I guess you could say I undervalue Monahan. I've always said he is the most overrated player on this forum especially. Good player but not in the Gaudreau class imho. The thing that helps him even get close to that value is the fact he is a center and he has a ridiculous wrist shot. I see Monny as pinky and Johnny as the brain.

I don't think Monahan is on the same level as Gaudreau. I think he's on the same level as Barkov, MacKinnon and Scheifele, who all signed similar deals this summer. It's hard to argue that Monahan got anything other than a fair deal.

The way I see it - anything under 8 years is a massive fail by BT. You give Johnny what he deserves. If we're talking 8 years - I think he deserves more than 7.25 but not much more. Whats the problem with adding the value of an ELC to lock the guy up?

I think saying "under 8 is a massive fail" might be a bit hyperbolic. Obviously five isn't good, six isn't great either and seven isn't ideal, but massive fail? I don't know man.

Furthermore, while I think $7.25M/8 is a fair deal I'm not going to complain if he signs at $7.5M/8. In my mind it's a slight overpayment, but not by much.

Realistically he gets 7x7 and everyone is happy until some 60 point scrub is signed for 8 million by some team with tons of cap - while Johnny is on all-star point per game season number 4 and in the middle of a 7 year contract earning less than some butt scratchers.

I almost guarantee that regardless of the contract Gaudreau signs, at some point Chiarelli some schmuck of a GM is going to sign some player to an overblown contract. It might even be a 60 point scrub making $8M. Should Gaudreau then be upset because he's working for a GM that's smart enough to sign cap efficient deals? If anything, I'd think he would rather be on a team that is built to win, instead of being the guy with the massive contract that handicaps the team.

If I was Johnny I would say 8m or bridge deal. I've got faith in myself and I think you guys will end up paying me in a few years after you see what I can do consistently with a good team around me. I think a bridge deal would be a loss for us because I honestly see Johnny dominating the league in the next few seasons.

Fortunately, no one wants a bridge deal. Everyone wants him to sign long term and I still trust that they will come to an agreement that is probably fair for both sides. Neither side will love it or think they "stole" the deal, but both sides will be happy.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Hudler was an anchor for Gaudreau and Monahan much of last season. They carried him around.

Ya he looked uninterested and behind the play, and would basically dump the puck and change. I actually thought that he was hurt.

But hey that doesn't fit some people's narrative so.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

...Gaudreau played last year with Hudler and Monahan.... 34% of the season.

This year it appears he is going to be playing with Monahan and either Chaisson Shinkaruk or ????... not very likely that these 3 guys will total between them over 82 games the 35 pts that Hudler put up in his 57.

If Trouba is complain about playing RD rather than LD maybe Gaudreau is worried about playing with a journeyman checker on his RW...

It has been pointed out numerous times on the forum this summer, and I think this is something that both Monahan and Gaudreau are not even slightly concerned about for good reason. After the Hudler trade both players saw virtually no change in their rate of production last year. They will produce top-line numbers regardless of whomever is playing on their right wing.

[dash_pinched]

I need to see some GRIT numbers before weighing in...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I'd be pretty concerned too if I was making $6.50 USD a year.

D'oh.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gaudreau played last year with Hudler and Monahan.... 34% of the season.

What percentage of Gaudreau's points was Hudler in on? I'd love to see some statistics that show Hudler was the driving force on that line.

This year it appears he is going to be playing with Monahan and either Chaisson Shinkaruk or ????... not very likely that these 3 guys will total between them over 82 games the 35 pts that Hudler put up in his 57.

You don't think Gaudreau, Monahan and a plug could combine for 35 points?

I'm assuming you mean above and beyond what Gaudreau and Monahan put up last year. That's 10 points each (assuming an even split). If Shinkaruk, Chiasson, Ferland, etc can't put up 15-20 points this year on the first line something is seriously wrong with all of them.

And you're suggesting that a 23 year old LW and 22 centre won't progress... at all? If Gaudreau even stays the same at home but figures out how to play better on the road (something many people have already suggested should have simply by having more productive 2nd and 3rd lines), he should pick up those point.

So... yeah, I think the first line is almost guaranteed to absorb Hudler's 35 points from last year.

If Trouba is complain about playing RD rather than LD maybe Gaudreau is worried about playing with a journeyman checker on his RW.

I don't... this makes no sense. Trouba is supposedly worried about his ice time and not having the opportunity to enough minutes because of a glut of Right shot defence. Has Winnipeg asked him to play LD?

Comparatively, Gaudreau is already getting first line minutes. There's nothing for him to worry about. He's never shown a single concern in his career about who he's playing with.

Remember his time in BC? He had Bill Arnold and Kevin Hayes on his line and he made them look good.

He was #11 in the league in PP time.

This year you have to expect that Bennett/Backlund/Brouwer and maybe Tkachuk will be given more PP time than Colburne/Hudler/Jones There might not be the tendency for him and Monahan play the first 90 seconds on all the power plays.

Do you have to expect that? I would be especially surprised to see Backlund getting serious PP time. He's always been way better defensively. I'd expect him to get PK time.

An argument could be made for Bennett/Brouwer to be on the second unit, but considering how the power play was absolute rubbish last year (and Gaudreau scored only 6 PPGs), I'm completely okay with that.

He played in a system specifically designed for him to score off the rush. He played on a team that was playing from behind in a lot of games and was hardly ever protecting 1 goal leads for the third period.

You're suggesting that he scored so many goals because Hartley used him as an offensive goal scorer and that's... a bad thing?

It's been pointed out by others that the reason last year went so poorly for the team is a combination of horrible goaltending and a defensive system that tried to collapse towards the net and block shots.

Gulutzan is not some defensive specialist coach like Darryl Sutter. He's not going to try to force the team to win games 1-0. He will continue to put our primary goal scores in a position to score goals.

These variables might lead to Gaudreau having a great year like he did as a 21 year old and hitting 64 pts.

Let me get this straight. Your prediction for Gaudreau this year is that he will end up somewhere in the 65 point range?

I can see that the Gaudreau camp might be a bit worried that this summer might be the best time to consider 8+ M for his UFA years.

If the Flames management are not able to get him for close to a Monahan contract it is in the teams interest to get him on a bridge contract.

I understand why the Flames' initial ask was $6.4M. I also understand why Gaudreau's initial ask was $8M+. But neither of these were every supposed to be realistic offers. They're starting points to get us, ultimately, to where we will end up: $7.25-ish.

[DJones]

I assume a new thread will be made when their's news?

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by DJones

I assume a new thread will be made when their's news?

No, it'll be buried in this thread. Only those with the strive to search for it deserve to know.