[PGT] Flames defeat Canucks 2-1

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I can't find any pics of Elliott in his all red gear other than the one in the practice jersey. anyone have one?

Lookin' good!

[btimbit]

Can't wait to see that in the retro jersey

[cannon7]

This is what I would try if I was GG:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Hamilton (Hamilton's only job is to battle in the corners and get Johnny the puck)
Ferland-Backlund-Frolik (Ferland adds an edge to an otherwise cerebral line)
Tkachuk-Bennett-Brouwer (if it ain't broke...)
Bouma-Stajan-Higgins

Think Jankowski is really close and could easily fill Stajan's role, but should be playing with better wingers. Shinkaruk needs to show more in preseason IMO, not really slotting in anywhere for me yet.

By midseason, assuming Tkachuk only gets 9 games:

Gaudreau-Monahan-Brouwer
Jankowski-Backlund-Frolik
Shinkaruk-Bennett-Hamilton

[GioforPM]

You don't think Chaisson has a role?

I doubt Ferland would be a good fit at all with Backlund and Frolik. I'd rather see Stajan play wing on that line and add Jankowski to the 4th.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I can't find any pics of Elliott in his all red gear other than the one in the practice jersey. anyone have one?

Spoiler!

Here are some (a bit blurry) pics I made of the top of his Mask

Spoiler!

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You don't think Chaisson has a role?

I doubt Ferland would be a good fit at all with Backlund and Frolik. I'd rather see Stajan play wing on that line and add Jankowski to the 4th.

He fit in great last year.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ignite09

He fit in great last year.

Ferland was pretty average to bad last year, no matter where he played. He seems to be best suited in an energy role. I just don't think he thinks the game like Frolik and Backlund.

[Enoch Root]

I simply don't want Ferland out there thinking about defensive responsibilities (which he would be if he were on Backlund's line).

I want him playing aggressively.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ferland was pretty average to bad last year, no matter where he played. He seems to be best suited in an energy role. I just don't think he thinks the game like Frolik and Backlund.

Ferland is a late bloomer and just overcame a crippling addiction a couple years ago, so I'm not writing him off yet. I mean he didn't start playing ice hockey until he was 13 years old... He's looked great this pre-season and receiving a lot of praise from the coaching staff (I'm not sure if you've been paying attention or not).

Watching him play last year, he seemed like he couldn't keep up with his quick hands. So far this season he's been keeping possession for longer periods of time and generating his own offensive chances. Ferland is fast and has a hard release, I really think he's got a better shot at the top line than Chiasson or Shinkaruk.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You don't think Chaisson has a role?

I doubt Ferland would be a good fit at all with Backlund and Frolik. I'd rather see Stajan play wing on that line and add Jankowski to the 4th.

It's just what I would try for a game, mainly trying Hamilton on the Geaudreau-Monahan line, as I think Hamilton has some untapped offensive upside.

As for Chaisson, I see him more as a Bolig type. Think he lines up on the bottom six.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Opposition quality / zone starts won't influence Tkachuk's success at LW as much as the ability of his linemates to shelter him and put him in positions to succeed. Don't forget Bennett and Colborne were the LWs on that line last year.

Of course they matter, enormously so - if you want evidence, look at how Hartley used Monahan his first and second years, along with the circumstances behind them. He was extremely sheltered in his first year on the third line and rightfully so. It wasn't until several important centers went down in early 2014-15 that Monahan ended up being buried in terms of the minutes he was playing, and somehow kept his head above water.

As for Hartley's choice of Bennett as a LW on that line - he's fired now and if Millions' comments during the end-of-season scrum were any indication, there were some questioning why he was getting buried on that line in the first place.

Unless you think Tkachuk is a completely irresponsible liability in his own zone. In that case he should be cut asap as every line will find themselves defending at some point and if I had to place bets, the Bennett Brouwer line will have more sequences defending than the Backlund Frolik line regardless of "zone starts".

Considering that proper use of line-matching by Hartley gave us a respectable home record at all, I don't see that happening unless it's maybe on the road.

But no - I don't want him facing the likes of Getzlaf, Crosby, Toews, Kopitar etc. Very self-explanatory.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

Of course they matter, enormously so - if you want evidence, look at how Hartley used Monahan his first and second years,

You can't compare a winger to a centre. Centers have to match up to other team's forwards as essentially a third defensemen in the modern NHL. Wingers have to support the play and pressure the points.

Wingers are more influenced by the quality of defense/centre they play with than who they are being matched up against. It's not absolute, but it's observable.

With Backlund you can start in the defensive zone all you want but you will always END in the offensive zone more often than not. With Bennett, you can start in the offensive zone more often, but if the line can't generate a strong forecheck they'll end up in the defensive zone and more exposed.

I love Sam Bennett and I think he will develop into a very strong two-way centre. But right now he's still a 20-year old second year centre who hasn't even played the position for a half season. Bennett can't shelter Tkachuk yet, Backlund can.

As for Hartley's choice of Bennett as a LW on that line - he's fired now and if Millions' comments during the end-of-season scrum were any indication, there were some questioning why he was getting buried on that line in the first place.

Buried? Bennett produced more than half his points in the third of the minutes he spent on that line. That became one of the most potent second lines in the league and on the road was simply our best line all year when together.

He was however buried when he was put on Granlund's wing. He was buried when he was put beside the likes of Bollig and Hathaway and told to fend for himself.

The Bennett-Backlund-Frolik line was great for Bennett and for the team. The only issue was that Bennett needed to play centre, not LW. That is not a concern with Tkachuk because Tkachuk needs to play LW, not centre.

But no - I don't want him facing the likes of Getzlaf, Crosby, Toews, Kopitar etc.

You're overly optimistic if you think we'd be able to completely shelter a line that's ostensibly going to be our second scoring line (with or without Tkachuk), away from teams' top players.

Further, you're also overstating Tkachuk's role on what ever line he plays on. Neither Backlund/Frolik nor Bennett/Brouwer should be depending on him to do anything defensively other than be solid. We're not asking him to kill penalties or play exclusively in the defensive zone in a 90s style checking role.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ferland was pretty average to bad last year, no matter where he played. He seems to be best suited in an energy role. I just don't think he thinks the game like Frolik and Backlund.

That is incorrect. Ferland was pretty strong last year despite not putting up points. He showed some very nice touch passes playing with Monahan and Gaudreau and has the skill to play on a scoring line. Merely an energy role would be underrating his long term potential to be a power forward on a scoring line.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

That is incorrect. Ferland was pretty strong last year despite not putting up points. He showed some very nice touch passes playing with Monahan and Gaudreau and has the skill to play on a scoring line. Merely an energy role would be underrating his long term potential to be a power forward on a scoring line.

It's not incorrect. It's an opinion that's not held only by me. And I was a big Ferland supporter going in - I thought he'd fit in with Bennett and Jones. But he simply disappeared for too many games in a row, gota reminder by Hartley and played well for a game or two, then slipped back. He's the kind of player that can't play a game without a strong work ethic every time.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

That is incorrect. Ferland was pretty strong last year despite not putting up points. He showed some very nice touch passes playing with Monahan and Gaudreau and has the skill to play on a scoring line. Merely an energy role would be underrating his long term potential to be a power forward on a scoring line.

I look forward to this being the case going forward. Maybe I was too hard on him - e petted too much... I value your eye a lot when it comes to these sorts of things, but I saw almost none of what you talk about from Ferland last season.