Did Kris Russell overplay his hand in free agency?

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by erick estrada

i thought the team played better team defense when russell and wideman were not on the ice for the club last season so chalk me up as a person that wants the team to move on from both of these guys. The only saving grace if they bring him back is that this new coaching staff may utilize the guy better and not overplay him like hartley did.

+1

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Let's say if the Flames have to retain $2.5 mil to trade Wideman away for scraps, and then Russell signs for $2.5 mil. So essentially we are still spending $5 mil for the year, would you take Russell or Wideman?

Yea no question

[Gaudreauvertime]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Why? Wideman's a 3rd pairing guy at best 5 on 5, but he's still an asset on the power play. Bolland won't be playing any time soon (failed his physical), and he might not ever play again. Plus, his contract goes on for another 3 years. At least for Wideman's very comparable salary, you can get a contributing player for one year and be done with him if he sucks.



I'm not a huge Russell fan necessarily, but I don't hate him either. He's definitely tough as nails even if he's undersized. He fits well in the Flames culture and would be considered a veteran leader at this point. He can play 2nd pairing decently enough, he can move the puck effectively, and he can give the team a little more speed and mobility on the back end compared to guys like Wideman and Engelland.

If he wanted a 2 year deal at $2.5 million, at this point I'd do it. Contingent on Wideman finding a new home of course.

Maybe you are right and I am underrating Wideman's perceived market value. I'm just not too high on him, especially after the run-in he had with that official.


Pun very much intended

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Let's say if the Flames have to retain $2.5 mil to trade Wideman away for scraps, and then Russell signs for $2.5 mil. So essentially we are still spending $5 mil for the year, would you take Russell or Wideman?

I take Russell. But wouldn't every other GM in the league? I guess it just takes one though.

I could see Russell wanting some kind of no trade clause on a one year deal. That would be a deal killer for me.

[GioforPM]

I just see little room for Russell on this team, even absent Wideman. I don't want to pay a guy with third pairing minutes that much money if I have a choice. I like Kevin's game a bit better and I think Engelland and Smid are a better third pairing. If Smid can't go I think there are guys on the farm who would be better suited for low minutes.

I like Russell's heart but I think his flaws at zone exits are a huge issue.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Gaudreauvertime

Yea no question

That was a question.

For my part I would prefer Russell in this scenario, but would rather he not cost more than $3 m on the cap.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

Let's say if the Flames have to retain $2.5 mil to trade Wideman away for scraps, and then Russell signs for $2.5 mil. So essentially we are still spending $5 mil for the year, would you take Russell or Wideman?

None of the Above. I'd rather move Wideman and play Kulak or Wotherspoon.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Parallex

None of the Above. I'd rather move Wideman and play Kulak or Wotherspoon.

Pretty much this. If by some miracle they could trade Wideman , i would sign Quincey to a PTO. If prospects can't beat him out for a spot they are not ready. I'm pretty sure at least one of Kulak or Wotherspoon could beat out Quincey. Hell i think they could beat out Wideman, but more than likely his contract would come into the decision making.

[GreenLantern2814]

I'm resigned to riding out the year with Wideman as the #5, and I'm fine with that. He, Engelland and Spoon can rotate through and not be liabilities. Maybe both vets can be traded - I hate having nearly $10M tied up on 3rd pairing D, but for one more year, it's likely something they'll have to grin and bear.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Parallex

None of the Above. I'd rather move Wideman and play Kulak or Wotherspoon.

Wideman doesn't need to be moved to facilitate this, and unless Russell were to also sign a deal with an NMC, signing him doesn't prevent this either.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ugh. Pinder on 960 this morning says he is hearing that Russell is waiting to sign with the Flames who can't until they move some money around. Kind of seems possible with Russell not signing anywhere as he could just be waiting for the Flames. Man I would be very, very, very disappointed if the Flames signed him for any sort of long term deal over $3 million/season.

I'm pretty skeptical about this rumour. Correct me if I'm wrong...
1) Teams can exceed the cap by 10% in the off season, so the Flames could still sign Russell today and have room for Gaudreau and F. Hamilton, with Smid going on LTIR to start the season
2) If this handshake deal is happening, then the Flames would have some certainty that Smid is Going on LTIR, so why not make the deal now?
3) If the Flames don't have certainty that Smid is going on LTIR, why would Russell wait around and turn down other options... unless he doesnt have other options.
4) If this thing hinges on Wideman being moved as opposed to Smid going on LTIR, why would Russell wait around and turn down other options... unless he doesnt have other options.
5) If Russell doesn't have any other options, the Flames should be able to sign him to a contract that doesn't require them to move money around.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

I'm pretty skeptical about this rumour. Correct me if I'm wrong...
1) Teams can exceed the cap by 10% in the off season, so the Flames could still sign Russell today and have room for Gaudreau and F. Hamilton, with Smid going on LTIR to start the season
2) If this handshake deal is happening, then the Flames would have some certainty that Smid is Going on LTIR, so why not make the deal now?
3) If the Flames don't have certainty that Smid is going on LTIR, why would Russell wait around and turn down other options... unless he doesnt have other options.
4) If this thing hinges on Wideman being moved as opposed to Smid going on LTIR, why would Russell wait around and turn down other options... unless he doesnt have other options.
5) If Russell doesn't have any other options, the Flames should be able to sign him to a contract that doesn't require them to move money around.

The thing is you need to be cap compliant before you can put anyone (Smid) on LTIR. Adding Russell now could make problems of having to waive someone we don't want to waive.

The way it could work is have Russell on a PTO and sign him after Smid goes on LTIR.

Not that I want to sign Russell for anything more than as a bottom pairing defenceman and as expansion waiver fodder.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't think Wideman is an effective or capable NHL dman anymore - particularly against fast teams. I think he gets exposed too much.
So, from my POV, the earlier he is off the team the better.
There is also all the weirdness about the stuff that happened last year, including how he basically through the trainers under the bus. Perhaps for valid reasons, but it just feels like from an overall organization perspective, a parting of ways would be best for everyone.

Wideman could be very effective in a 3rd pairing PP role. He's not suited to log 20+ minutes a night anymore, but with his shot and his other offensive tools he certainly still has a place.

In addition he never through the trainers under the bus at all. He outright said he lied to the trainers and said he was fine when he wasn't, that is the furthest thing from throwing them under the bus.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

The thing is you need to be cap compliant before you can put anyone (Smid) on LTIR. Adding Russell now could make problems of having to waive someone we don't want to waive.

The way it could work is have Russell on a PTO and sign him after Smid goes on LTIR.

Not that I want to sign Russell for anything more than as a bottom pairing defenceman and as expansion waiver fodder.

I am pretty sure this changed, I believe now it can all be done at the same time rather than the days of demoting someone to become compliant just to recall them.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Wideman could be very effective in a 3rd pairing PP role. He's not suited to log 20+ minutes a night anymore, but with his shot and his other offensive tools he certainly still has a place.

In addition he never through the trainers under the bus at all. He outright said he lied to the trainers and said he was fine when he wasn't, that is the furthest thing from throwing them under the bus.

Makes them look bad for not taking him out of the game

[shadowlord]

I think Russell is a good defenceman, but I would like to prefer to see Nakladal resigned or space opened up for the kids from come up and fight for a spot.

Last season, I didn't see the value in having Wotherspoon in the press box for game after game.

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Would signing him help with some of the expansion draft rules - in terms of how many vets and $$ you have to expose? I confess to being somewhat unclear on all those rules.
He could also be a tempting pick for Las Vegas if they are looking for a good veteran leader, but someone not ancient.

Excuse me if someone already brought this up, not going back through the thread.

Vegas could be the sticking point, maybe Russell doesn't want to get picked in the Expansion draft, so he's firm on the NMC, and since no one wants to be forced to expose someone younger, its not happening. He's going to have to take a 1 yr deal.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ugh. Pinder on 960 this morning says he is hearing that Russell is waiting to sign with the Flames who can't until they move some money around. Kind of seems possible with Russell not signing anywhere as he could just be waiting for the Flames. Man I would be very, very, very disappointed if the Flames signed him for any sort of long term deal over $3 million/season.

So you'd be okay with $2.5 or even $2.9?

[thymebalm]

I don't think I want Russell on the team, even for 800k as a number six. We need defenders that can grow with the team, and Russell is done growing. Wotherspoon, Kulak, Kylington, Andersson, someone should be put in that role to grow.

[bigrangy]

Nakladal is better at hockey than Russell or Wideman, and making space for him should be the #1 priority once Gaudreau is signed.