The New American Politics thread

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Buster

So the liberal bias in the media is acceptable because they are right?

That's a very circular argument.

If you watch MSNBC/Maddow, The Young Turks, the CBC, etc and can't see the outrageous agenda at play, then your echo chamber is very strong.

And the current iteration of the Left, and its current obsession with Thought Crime and "social justice" might be the very opposite of Classical Liberal thinking.

Wow it's almost like a straight-line political spectrum is possibly the stupidest way to plot it.

[corporatejay]

Trump is a charlatan. Dude takes 3 positions on minimum wage in 2 sentences.

[burn_this_city]

Ah yes, the oligarch controlled Young Turks, the Liberal propaganda machine. Subverting facts and democracy one youtube video at a time.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

That's actually a bizarrely evasive tweet, in that he is answering a completely different question than the one that people are asking.

He was just asked again about Russia in a press conference in Florida. He took the question as a chance to brag about buying a house in Palm Beach for $40 million and selling it to a Russian for $100 million. Very impressive!

But he did say several times "I have nothing to do with Russia".

Earlier he did say that he hopes the Russians find those 30,000 emails. What a patriot. He doesn't even know how backwards this is.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Buster

So the liberal bias in the media is acceptable because they are right?

That's a very circular argument.

If you watch MSNBC/Maddow, The Young Turks, the CBC, etc and can't see the outrageous agenda at play, then your echo chamber is very strong.

And the current iteration of the Left, and its current obsession with Thought Crime and "social justice" might be the very opposite of Classical Liberal thinking.

Ah the myth of the liberal media. Are there liberal shows? If course, as there's thousands of shows available. If course there is. On the whole, it's a funny myth

[automaton 3]

I've been poking around various sites, and even fluff pieces seem to have plenty of angry responses which are getting upvoted. There is very little of the passion, energy and sense of hope of the Obama election years.

Many Americans (at least those with internet access) seem to be in a really lousy mood. Still a long ways to November but will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Flamenspiel]

Maybe it is an agenda, maybe its a coincidence, but when watching CNN last night it seemed like they were fully staffed by ex DNC people. They all gushed over Bill Clinton, and there was only one guy who had a republican affiliations and John King(who always comes off as fair).

I get that Bill Clinton is one of the great public speakers of today, but you can appreciate him the way you could a great auctioneer at Sothbys, it does not mean you have to buy anything. There was no critical thinking on display at all.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Buster

So the liberal bias in the media is acceptable because they are right?

That's a very circular argument.

If you watch MSNBC/Maddow, The Young Turks, the CBC, etc and can't see the outrageous agenda at play, then your echo chamber is very strong.

And the current iteration of the Left, and its current obsession with Thought Crime and "social justice" might be the very opposite of Classical Liberal thinking.

I think you are missing the point overall. Sure there are some very liberal media outlets that you mention, but the problem as I see it is that conservatives have convinced themselves that ALL media not named Fox News is biased against them. It's not about Maddow, or Olbermann, or any other left leaning folks. But the fact that many Americans feel that the major news networks, NPR, CNN, newspapers etc etc are all in on this huge conspiracy. There is a ton of really great journalism that goes on and it is all dismissed by those on the right as some vast conspiracy.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Proving yet again he's simply griffting out here, Trump just said several times that Tim Kaine did a terrible job in New Jersey. The people supporting him deserve to be totally duped and have him royally #### them over in the end.

[Zarley]

Anyone who takes the US news media seriously (with the exception of PBS and perhaps the CNN International feed) is doing themself a disservice. It's all garbage with MSNBC the Democratic mouthpiece, Fox on the Rebuplican side, and CNN featuring partisan idiots from both sides. There's quite a contrast when comparing a legitimate news source like BBC World Service or even CBC News Network to those mentioned.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Anyone who takes the US news media seriously (with the exception of PBS and perhaps the CNN International feed) is doing themself a disservice. It's all garbage with MSNBC the Democratic mouthpiece, Fox on the Rebuplican side, and CNN featuring partisan idiots from both sides. There's quite a contrast when comparing a legitimate news source like BBC World Service or even CBC News Network to those mentioned.

New York Times, WSJ and Wapo are also really good.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Anyone catch Trump's presser that just ended?

He basically openly asked Russian hackers to find the rest of Hillary's e-mails.

I can't believe this guy is for real. That is outright craziness.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Maybe it is an agenda, maybe its a coincidence, but when watching CNN last night it seemed like they were fully staffed by ex DNC people. They all gushed over Bill Clinton, and there was only one guy who had a republican affiliations and John King(who always comes off as fair).

I get that Bill Clinton is one of the great public speakers of today, but you can appreciate him the way you could a great auctioneer at Sothbys, it does not mean you have to buy anything. There was no critical thinking on display at all.

I'm stealing this from someone (can't recall who I'm afraid) but isn't the standard for journalism "truth" rather than "impartiality"?

[Buster]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I think you are missing the point overall. Sure there are some very liberal media outlets that you mention, but the problem as I see it is that conservatives have convinced themselves that ALL media not named Fox News is biased against them. It's not about Maddow, or Olbermann, or any other left leaning folks. But the fact that many Americans feel that the major news networks, NPR, CNN, newspapers etc etc are all in on this huge conspiracy. There is a ton of really great journalism that goes on and it is all dismissed by those on the right as some vast conspiracy.

You don't have to believe in conspiracies to criticize echo chamber media outlets on the Left. The original claim I was disputing was that those media outlets have no agenda because they are right. That the bias on the Left is not a bias because they have some kind of moral authority.

That's clearly not the case.

There ARE media outlets, however, where conspiratorial claims have at least a kernel of merit. In particular, the CBC is a media outlet that displays an egregious and politicized agenda. This makes sense, since it is first and foremost a government agency - and all government agencies first priority is the maintenance of itself.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Wow it's almost like a straight-line political spectrum is possibly the stupidest way to plot it.

My personal worldview is not left/right, I just capitulate to the dominant convention in that regard in order to participate in the conversation.

I think it is much more useful to look at the world as a spectrum of authoritarians vs libertarians. Or perhaps Big State people vs Small State people.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Buster

I think it is much more useful to look at the world as a spectrum of authoritarians vs libertarians. Or perhaps Big State people vs Small State people.

That's just Up/Down instead of Left/Right. Trying to split anything into a dichotomy is dumb.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Makarov

I'm stealing this from someone (can't recall who I'm afraid) but isn't the standard for journalism "truth" rather than "impartiality"?

lol, don't you mean Pravda?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Anyone catch Trump's presser that just ended?

He basically openly asked Russian hackers to find the rest of Hillary's e-mails.

I can't believe this guy is for real. That is outright craziness.

Openly flirting with treason, yet he's going to build a wall and stop Muslims from coming so it's all good. Trump supporters are pretty anti-American it seems.

[2Stonedbirds]

Yeah, they also said it was a fantastic night with next to no issues and party unity.

They didn't talk however how on the floor, after Bernie passed his motion to suspend the roll call and nominate Hillary, how many delegates, in particular Florida and Alaska walked off the floor. When asked how they felt they all unanimously responded with "crushed, eff the DNC, not voting for Hillary."

Emotions running high at that time and I'm sure people will gather themselves, but many are unhappy with the DNCs handling of their "unbiased" nomination process.

There was a fellow live streaming the convention from the floor and it was a far cry from the happy go lucky party presented by CNN et all last night.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by 2Stonedbirds

Yeah, they also said it was a fantastic night with next to no issues and party unity.

They didn't talk however how on the floor, after Bernie passed his motion to suspend the roll call and nominate Hillary, how many delegates, in particular Florida and Alaska walked off the floor. When asked how they felt they all unanimously responded with "crushed, eff the DNC, not voting for Hillary."

Emotions running high at that time and I'm sure people will gather themselves, but many are unhappy with the DNCs handling of their "unbiased" nomination process.

There was a fellow live streaming the convention from the floor and it was a far cry from the happy go lucky party presented by CNN et all last night.

Well if you are going to call that media bias, did you not notice that the EXACT SAME THING happened in Cleveland, and received a similar amount of press? The Colorado and Utah (I believe) delegations were among those that walked out of the GOP convention, and a Utah republican senator left the party in protest after the convention ended.

CNN didn't really report on that either, so I guess last week they had a right wing bias, and now they have switched?

Media isn't unbiased -- it never has been. But it is (I think) lazier than it used to be, but maybe that is just me being an old fart. One of the greatest and most important media figures of the last century was Edward R. Murrow. He was smart, principled, and tough, and willing to stand up and speak truth to power.

But was he unbiased? Hardly. Being unbiased is neither desirable nor possible. It is possible to be fair--but that is a different thing altogether.