Calgarypuck Prospect Ranking 2016 - Round 15 Run Off

[shotinthebacklund]

Cali, i just learned how to use the ignore function. Would you like me to explain it to you?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

As for the rest of what you think about me, I don't think that's a fair assessment.
Clearly you don't like me or anything I have to say, perhaps because I've challenged your thoughts in the past.

Plenty of excellent regular posters have challenged my thoughts in the past. The difference is that they can separate challenging thoughts from what you do, which is virtually stating your opinion as factual and then supporting that with half-information. There are only three, maybe four posters on CP that I have any real problem with, and yes you are one of them but I still generally choose not to respond to most of your erroneous claims despite your persistent attitude. I did in this thread, and if I was condescending it was due to your posting history, not unlike ricardodw and Bandwagon in Flames.

Just some advice: Don't treat people like they're stupid. It makes things pretty hostile around here very quickly.

Some advice in return: Don't treat people in a manner suggesting they need internet message board etiquette lessons. It comes across as pretty condescending.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

So who is everyone voting for??

[This post is terrible]

If this was a sitcom, this would be the part with the intense stare down followed by passionate kissing

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

but I honestly think McDonald is already, or will be a bust.

You know better than that, Cali. Goalies dont peak at the age of 20, let alone outright bust.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Ok everyone, let me just rephrase my stance so we can all move on:

I think McDonald has a low chance of being an NHL goaltender.

[Yanda]

McDonald earned his spot on team Canada even tho he was average in the tournament. He still has alot of potential to be a starting goaltender in the NHL.

Voting Hathaway again in Round 16

[3rd line Grinder]

Although I voted for E2 and acknowledge that McDonald has struggled pretty hard this year, I would point out that the pros are a different beast than junior. So I will be withholding judgement on him until after that. It's the exact same skepticism people have about Gillies, interesting to see that people don't have the same reservations for McDonald too, and are willing to write him off early

[Reggie Dunlop]

Flames are going into next season with three unproven AHL (let alone NHL) goaltenders. That job is wide open. The Heat is going to go with the hot hand over pedigree.

[bax]

No disrespect to Tuulola. I think he's a good prospect, but the Flames scouting staff selected guys like Fox, Dube, Parsons, Mattson, Lindstrom all ahead of him just a few weeks ago. Do that many people on this board really think that they are better scouts than who the Flames employ?

[Reggie Dunlop]

This.

Originally Posted by bax

no disrespect to tuulola. I think he's a good prospect, but the flames scouting staff selected guys like fox, dube, parsons, mattson, lindstrom all ahead of him just a few weeks ago. Do that many people on this board really think that they are better scouts than who the flames employ?

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by bax

No disrespect to Tuulola. I think he's a good prospect, but the Flames scouting staff selected guys like Fox, Dube, Parsons, Mattson, Lindstrom all ahead of him just a few weeks ago. Do that many people on this board really think that they are better scouts than who the Flames employ?

Yes.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by bax

No disrespect to Tuulola. I think he's a good prospect, but the Flames scouting staff selected guys like Fox, Dube, Parsons, Mattson, Lindstrom all ahead of him just a few weeks ago. Do that many people on this board really think that they are better scouts than who the Flames employ?

This assumes that the draft order is a clear representation of player values to the team who drafted them. There are all sorts of factors at play in where a player is selected, and it is never entirely as simple as picking the "best player available," especially after the first round. I think it is a mistake to read into the draft order an equivalent value for each player.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This assumes that the draft order is a clear representation of player values to the team who drafted them. There are all sorts of factors at play in where a player is selected, and it is never entirely as simple as picking the "best player available," especially after the first round. I think it is a mistake to read into the draft order an equivalent value for each player.

Of course it depends on how many rounds of difference we're talking about. A difference of 1 round can easily be because of tactical reasons ("we think this guy will still be available in the next round but that guy won't").

A difference of 3 rounds or more starts to be pretty telling.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

For the record, I voted for MacDonald, but I do share the same concerns as Cali.

GranteedEV, can you run the analysis against Matthew Welsh, McDonald's teammate please? I am curious how those stats shake out comparing goalies playing for the same team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This assumes that the draft order is a clear representation of player values to the team who drafted them. There are all sorts of factors at play in where a player is selected, and it is never entirely as simple as picking the "best player available," especially after the first round. I think it is a mistake to read into the draft order an equivalent value for each player.

I agree. It certainly provides a guideline as a starting point. However, there are other factors which can quickly change things.

Maybe a player had some injuries and didn't play as much, making him a higher risk (which apparently may be the case here). Once seen afterwards, where he can be compared to others, that risk can be quickly mitigated.

Maybe a player had some question marks to his game, be it attitude or defensive play or whatever, and once he has a chance to answer those questions, his risk drops and his value rises (for example, Kylington).

The difference between being taken in the 2nd or 3rd round, vs the 5th or 6th, may be as minimal as one question mark about them.

Having said all that, the prospects camp is a very small sample size. And Tuulola viewed well, partially due to his energy level.

So while I don't think we have to follow the draft order religiously, I think we do need to be careful about putting too much weight on his camp showing.

I can't wait to see more from him though. If he looks good in Penticton and in main camp, then his stock will definitely jump.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by bax

No disrespect to Tuulola. I think he's a good prospect, but the Flames scouting staff selected guys like Fox, Dube, Parsons, Mattson, Lindstrom all ahead of him just a few weeks ago. Do that many people on this board really think that they are better scouts than who the Flames employ?

I don't think anyone on CP realistically thinks they know more than NHL scouts, aside from maybe the actual NHL scouts that lurk on CP. But if CP is expected to vote in line with where the Flames drafted their prospects then what's the point of these polls? It'd be a lot quicker to just sort all our prospects by the round in which they were drafted in, so Gillies has no business being ranked where he is because when the Flames drafted him there were other guys picked ahead of him.

My point is that this is an opinion poll, most Flames fans aren't on top of the development of every Flames prospect. So don't take things too seriously, we're all just guessing -- as if the Flames scouts aren't as well...

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Well prospects can impress and show they are better than their draft position. See Gaudreau after several years of development. Draft position means very little after a few years or even after a year.

However Tuulola just got drafted this year. He hasn't had any hockey to play to show he's better than a late rounder. It's hard for him to out perform his draft position when he's only just been drafted. I think the people making the draft position argument are only making it because he's a fresh draft pick. That same argument won't be valid next year. But this summer? I tend to agree that it should be hard to rate him ahead of Dube and Fox because the Flames did not rate him ahead of those two. After the first three rounds I'm not sure the order is as meaningful but I don't think Tuulola should be rated ahead of Dube, Parsons or Fox

[bax]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I don't think anyone on CP realistically thinks they know more than NHL scouts, aside from maybe the actual NHL scouts that lurk on CP. But if CP is expected to vote in line with where the Flames drafted their prospects then what's the point of these polls? It'd be a lot quicker to just sort all our prospects by the round in which they were drafted in, so Gillies has no business being ranked where he is because when the Flames drafted him there were other guys picked ahead of him.

My point is that this is an opinion poll, most Flames fans aren't on top of the development of every Flames prospect. So don't take things too seriously, we're all just guessing -- as if the Flames scouts aren't as well...

Because there is a massive difference from comparing prospects from different draft years to comparing prospects from the same draft year.

A few weeks ago the Flames scouting staff decided that there were a huge pile of players they would take ahead of Tuulola. Nothing has changed since then except for one development camp.

Obviously ranking these players at this time next year will yield vastly different results. A year of development will do that.

Gillies is ranked high because of how he has developed since getting drafted