Do you give unconditional trust and support to the RCMP?

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by MBates

If you got the idea from my post that I was suggesting all lawyers should be trusted (a) I do not know where you got that from and (b) I was not.

If you wonder whether I am being a hypocrite, I put my money behind my mouth when I see lawyer misconduct:

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/do...?resultIndex=2

Just pointing out the obvious, no profession will ever be trusted 100%.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

Haha way to stick it to MBates

Nope. See I started a discussion about police misconduct. Never said there wasn't lawyer misconduct. The main difference as I see it is people seem completely willing to see lawyers (who are sworn officers of the court in nearly the exact same way as a police officer) as potentially corrupt and worthy of serious scrutiny and even mistrust but inexplicably treat police officers with God-like reverence. I do not understand that perspective given the types of things detailed in the article I posted.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by MBates

Nope. See I started a discussion about police misconduct. Never said there wasn't lawyer misconduct. The main difference as I see it is people seem completely willing to see lawyers (who are sworn officers of the court in nearly the exact same way as a police officer) as potentially corrupt and worthy of serious scrutiny and even mistrust but inexplicably treat police officers with God-like reverence. I do not understand that perspective given the types of things detailed in the article I posted.

No you didn't, you started a thread on whether or not the RCMP should be unconditionally trusted.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

Speaking of RCMP misconduct, one of the officers who was sentenced to 30 months in prison for the tazering death of Robert Dziekanski, lost his appeal today in BC court.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...ssed-1.3679221

See and the thing to be reminded of here is that he isn't actually convicted and sentenced for the tazering. Its for perjury because he lied under oath about the incident.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Could say the same thing about your post. The spirit and intent of the thread title is blatantly obvious. It should be "do you dislike RCMP officers?". That way people who dislike cops could go on a rant for a few days and get it out of their systems. Instead, that question for the thread was silly and people respond appropriately.

You're free to start a thread about lawyers if you'd like.

If you don't want to talk about police corruption, don't come into the police corruption thread. If you're finished deflecting, let's get back to talking about the serious issue of the lack of accountability in the RCMP as well as local law enforcement jurisdictions.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

No you didn't, you started a thread on whether or not the RCMP should be unconditionally trusted.

Ok, I can apologize for the choice of a loaded question for the thread title. It was poorly put as has been fairly pointed out by several people including you.

So if I change the question to "Does the RCMP still deserve your trust and support?" (I seriously have no idea how one actually does that in a thread title so maybe someone can help out there) does the article I posted lead you to answer that question or give examples of bad lawyers?

[GreenLantern2814]

You shouldn't give anyone unconditional trust. Especially a police force.

Recognize they play a very difficult, very vital role in a functioning society, and hold them accountable for their actions when they cross the line.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

If a couple RCMP officers do something inappropriate do you think it's fair to bunch them all together? I think there's a word for that.

Are you looking to move to the USA in order to avoid this corrupt and brutal police force? We sure do have it tough here after all.

I do not think all should be summarily treated the same. But I do think objectively the article I posted speaks to much more than "a couple RCMP officers doing something inappropriate." These are senior ranking supervisory officers at a training facility who were able to behave this way apparently unchecked for years because other officers did not feel they could even speak up for fear of reprisal.

Consider this quote from the report:

The review found that during this new inquiry, "several new allegations of misconduct came to light" against Solesme, Calandrini and another instructor.

"Neither management, nor the commanding officer of national headquarters, ordered expanded or further investigations into these new allegations," reads the report.

New allegations of misconduct came to light during a misconduct investigation and nobody did anything to act on them.

The end result of a formal apology from an RCMP Commissioner and the removal from command of a Chief Superintendent with recognition that nobody apparently even knew who in the chain of command was responsible for disciplining instructors is by definition systemic and cannot be explained by a cliche reference to a couple bad apples.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Red herring. Stick to the topic.

When someone says: "In my view, it is the very unwillingness of Canadians to accept how corrupt and unlawful their police forces can be that creates the environment for these things to happen" they invite comparison to other countries. Why else specify Canadians and their police forces?

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

The spirit and intent of the thread title is blatantly obvious. It should be "do you dislike RCMP officers?"

I do not dislike RCMP officers or any police officers for that matter. It was not my intent to just make people rant hate for them but I think you know that if you read the rest of what I wrote in the original post.

I suggest Canadians as a whole give too much blind trust and support to the RCMP and as a result the RCMP is not the respectable and trustworthy police force that it is supposed to be.

That is what I was trying to provoke discussion on.

If I am wrong (which has happened before) then can you explain the contents of the article I posted? Is that the RCMP you believe we should have?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When someone says: "In my view, it is the very unwillingness of Canadians to accept how corrupt and unlawful their police forces can be that creates the environment for these things to happen" they invite comparison to other countries. Why else specify Canadians and their police forces?

Not really. It invites conversation pertaining to what other causes would be responsible for creating said environment. Even if Canadian police are heads and shoulders above other police forces, his argument is still that the attitudes of Canadians are what contributes to the more unsavory elements.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by AcGold

The only people you should report unconditionally is your family and closest friends. People are sneaky bastards, trust no one.

Fixed that for you Comrade.

[Northendzone]

I think I trust police/law enforcement officers as a whole; however, there are always a few bad ones.

and I think that there are still officers out there who likely feel it is a man's world and they are above the law.

[bigtmac19]

I don't really respect the RCMP as a force at the moment. The systemic problems within the force that have come to light over the past few years have certainly been a blow to my perception of them. The many stories of harassment and assault on female officers in recent years are very disturbing.

[Superflyer]

I personally know someone that works for the CPS and he introduced to me a few of the people that he works with. I could say that I would trust him and the others that I met with my life. Now there are some stories that he told me about others there, and while not full on corrupt or anything like that, I would not trust them very much. They do their job but they are just jerks. Pretty much in the same vein as most are good people but there are some bad eggs that spoil it for all of them

[peter12]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Not really. It invites conversation pertaining to what other causes would be responsible for creating said environment. Even if Canadian police are heads and shoulders above other police forces, his argument is still that the attitudes of Canadians are what contributes to the more unsavory elements.

The perception of corruption is a powerful distorting force.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Superflyer

I personally know someone that works for the CPS and he introduced to me a few of the people that he works with. I could say that I would trust him and the others that I met with my life. Now there are some stories that he told me about others there, and while not full on corrupt or anything like that, I would not trust them very much. They do their job but they are just jerks. Pretty much in the same vein as most are good people but there are some bad eggs that spoil it for all of them

A close friend of mine became a cop. She transformed into a ######-bag, authoritarian psycho almost overnight, but she had it in her all along.

As a consultant, I worked with a retired Toronto police sergeant, and he was probably the most stand-up dude ever. He even had a silver grey cop mustache.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by MBates

Nope. See I started a discussion about police misconduct. Never said there wasn't lawyer misconduct. The main difference as I see it is people seem completely willing to see lawyers (who are sworn officers of the court in nearly the exact same way as a police officer) as potentially corrupt and worthy of serious scrutiny and even mistrust but inexplicably treat police officers with God-like reverence. I do not understand that perspective given the types of things detailed in the article I posted.

Aren't we as a society more critical then ever of police at this point and time? With any topic, there's people opposed/supportive/indifferent. I think arguing specific mindsets where people clearly aren't going to change just seems incredibly redundant.

The vocal members for all sides on this topic are rather clear on CP and these discussions spiral into the same back and forth every time.

There's obviously room for such important discussions but trying to spur conversation with a clearly inflammatory title just draws the line in the sand and hard for anyone to participate in an educational conversation when you've clearly taken a biased side.

In my humble opinion of course.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by jar_e

There's obviously room for such important discussions but trying to spur conversation with a clearly inflammatory title just draws the line in the sand and hard for anyone to participate in an educational conversation when you've clearly taken a biased side.

In my humble opinion of course.

Bad thread title. Check. Got it. Already admitted it.

Trying to open some eyes to the side of policing I know all too well. Not inherently biased against them at all. Just making an argument.

Here's a question. How many here have written a formal letter of compliment to a chief of police which goes to assisting good officers getting promoted? I have.

It's fine to be pro police anonymously on a discussion forum (and I mean that, I don't like debating people who think the same way I do on everything) but I "back the blue" officially - for those who deserve it.

If I am biased it is in favour of ethical and law abiding community policing. I have no problem with owning that.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You're free to start a thread about lawyers if you'd like.

If you don't want to talk about police corruption, don't come into the police corruption thread. If you're finished deflecting, let's get back to talking about the serious issue of the lack of accountability in the RCMP as well as local law enforcement jurisdictions.

MBates didn't start a thread about police corruption though. He just started a whiny "I'm a cop hater and I hate cops" thread. Not exactly the same thing.